http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/7.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net
[url]http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=south-korea-surrenders-creationist-demands[/url]

[quote]The campaign was led by the Society for Textbook Revise (STR), which aims to delete the “error” of evolution from textbooks to “correct” students’ views of the world, according to the society’s website. The society says that its members include professors of biology and high-school science teachers.

The STR is also campaigning to remove content about “the evolution of humans” and “the adaptation of finch beaks based on habitat and mode of sustenance”, a reference to one of the most famous observations in Charles Darwin’s On the Origin of Species. [/quote]

Sets a bad precedent for similar movements in some of the states, some of whom [url=http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/77982.page]are not on good terms with the scientific community already.[/url]]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758572.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758572.page GMT
And believing that God is an all-knowing and wise being, clearly he would of had this forsight and used evolution to create us. If he even set out purposely to create us that is. I'm not so full of pride to think that we are the center of his attention.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758586.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758586.page GMT
And believing that God is an all-knowing and wise being, clearly he would of had this forsight and used evolution to create us. If he even set out purposely to create us that is. I'm not so full of pride to think that we are the center of his attention.[/quote]

Actually, there were other people, just not the ones belonging to the story. When Cain left after killing Able, he found other people to marry into who were presumably not the daughters of Lilith

They saved the inbreeding for Lot's unfortunate daughters. *snort*]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758587.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758587.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758589.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758589.page GMT
They saved the inbreeding for Lot's unfortunate daughters. *snort*[/quote]

Ya I heard of that story too. There's so much in the Bible that makes me wonder why anyone would worship a deity like that claiming him to be good.

GENESIS 19:6- In Sodom, Lot’s home was assaulted by a homosexual mob seeking to have relations with two angels. Lot volunteered his virgin daughters to the crowd, saying "you can do what you like with them" as long as the guests are left alone. After offering his children to be raped, Lot was then appointed by God as worthy of rescue from Sodom’s destruction.

I mean WTF?

[quote=grindstone]You know, the Catholic Church supports evolution.[/quote]

This I like.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758595.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758595.page GMT
There are more than just christians active in South Korea. What about the Buddhists and Shinto?

The whole makes my skin crawl. Mostly because people under threat tend to strip themselves down to fundamentalist ideology -- not just religious, but economic and political.

Think about the USA during the depression...]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758597.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758597.page GMT
They saved the inbreeding for Lot's unfortunate daughters. *snort*[/quote]

Ya I heard of that story too. There's so much in the Bible that makes me wonder why anyone would worship a deity like that claiming him to be good.

GENESIS 19:6- In Sodom, Lot’s home was assaulted by a homosexual mob seeking to have relations with two angels. Lot volunteered his virgin daughters to the crowd, saying "you can do what you like with them" as long as the guests are left alone. After offering his children to be raped, Lot was then appointed by God as worthy of rescue from Sodom’s destruction.

I mean WTF?

[/quote]

Oh, I meant later, in the wilderness, after mommy was turned into salt. According to the story, Lots daughters decided they would never have any kids, just wandering in the wilderness with daddy. So they got him drunk and.... You can piece together the rest.

Actually it always sounded like a "good excuse" for some good ol' patriarchal hanky-panky.

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758598.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758598.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758602.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758602.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758604.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758604.page GMT
[b]Because we'll all burn if you don't believe[/b]! *cough* At least that's what they think.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758607.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758607.page GMT But seriously Osuth Korea is one of the last places i would've expected.

Fortunately in the UK we're pretty safe from fundamentalists, our scientific establishment and tradition has enough standing to defend itself for the most part. Darwin's a fairly integral part of the syllabus, and long may it remain that way. The only acknowledgement of creationism our textbook gives is a reluctant: "However, not all people agree with the theory of evolution, and some believe life was created by a god" Go Britain. We have a fundamentalist in our class, awesome guy, but he looked a little awkward when we did the evolution module. He was outnumbered about 30 to 1.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758609.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758609.page GMT
My father, who was one of the most intelligent and astute people I've ever known, went to church boarding school. He was an agnostic with a serious education in scripture. I was brought up pagan, and my sons as well. I knew before I went to school how to split genesis into the 3 1/2 voices that run concurrently (it's much more intelligible that way), and I got the the bible in depth, with Josephus on the side to cross check.

I'm still pagan (not neo-).

I still think the problem with the denial of science is reactionary behaviour born out of pervasive fear on a national level. We've had many years of the country being run by government balancing greed and fear on the personal level. And the stupidity like the denial of evolution shows. When I was in school both creationism and evolution were taught the same week. We were allowed to attend or abstain from lectures as we chose.

The whole idea of taking creationism seriously enough to excuse people from class bothered me in the 70's, even though anyone who left class was considered pretty much out there. The only ones who left were Mennonites who came to school in a carriage.

To see that become mainstream? *Shiver*

[quote=G1s26]I woudln't expect South Korea to have yielded. It seems sharing a border with the highly miltaristic, territorial and aggressive communist North Korea, possibly armed with nuclear weaponry, is nothing compared ot the pressure of a group of Fundamentalists with petitions and lobby groups. [/quote]

The reason they gave in is when there is pressure from outside, people do become reactionary and move to the ideas of the past for comfort. It's not because the fundamentalists are stronger, but because there is psychological stability in moving ideologically backward, and calling on god for protection. Like deathbed conversions.


]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758610.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758610.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758612.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758612.page GMT
I've found over the years that the vast majority of people who doubt evolution don't really understand it. They're not grasping the fundamental concepts of the theory and it's no surprise that they're not ready to accept it as fact.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758638.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758638.page GMT
Edit: spelling corrections.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758649.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758649.page GMT
It's just a bit odd that it happened now of all times, but it's a bit of a recurring pattern. Information & science, our observations, are core.
This is why many a political figure is found lieing through their teeth sometime or another. Because certain information gets certian results. Some of it gets glory, reward, satisfying events, you name it.

Whether you're christian or atheist, it seems strange to just remove the theory from the books like that. But both of you will get to gawk at something even madder. But a madness I'm compelled to propose.
This, SOPA, lobbies, censorship, various dictator regimes, liar politicians, severing educations, political ties to media, it follows a common pattern, acccording to my hypothesis.

Information is power. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I'm just saying that people like to tweak around with that & distort facts, in politics & more. Some would say one central power pulls the thickest strings, but those men are in tin foil hats, or in padded cells.

I am here, because I'm playing it safe & declaring that everyone does this sometime. It's immature, & it amounts to a swarm, but there you go. As individuals we're smart, but collectively we're like kids in a sandbox. In a sense.
Tie up all previous theories. It's greed, fear, whyever the movement sought this change. Which roots from hunger, & will to survive. Or I'm just going a bit mad. You decide.

[i]"People! This game of 'avoid hunger' is getting nuts. Just share, will you? Alright, fine, you can trade, but don't forget to lend some to the starving. That's an important resource there, now! I think we should share it! Now then. Let's go see this world, shall we?"[/i]

The fact that S. Korea enacted this decision is perplexing, but it carries a few core elements of a kind.
Asking to tweak informational flow for competitive benefit, or satisfaction? Familiar, in a sense.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758699.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758699.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758721.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758721.page GMT
But, I'm also astonishingly stupid, so take that with a grain of salt (or a pillar. Too soon?)

The funny thing is that this seems more like something you'd see from North Korea than South Korea.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758768.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758768.page GMT
I've found powerful people to be more aware of how what they do affects others, and to be less interested in hurting other people than the sort of people who have very little power in their lives and so are given to over-exercising what little they have.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758943.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758943.page GMT
Because I was really hoping for the effects of the Cold War to start to wear off by now. I wouldn't have to swear on Bibles or pledge to God and my country or be blinded to knowledge which I'm pretty sure Jesus would have approved of.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758953.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758953.page GMT
Now, this business about evolution being banned from South Korea's textbooks shouldn't be that big a surprise. In fact, it almost happened here in the United States. Remember Rick Santorum, anyone? Yeah, he dropped out of the presidential race and everyone forgot about him and his idiocy. But during the campaign, he said that if he became president, he would ban the teaching of evolution in America's schools and make all the teachers teach creationism instead. Fortunately, he dropped out of the race, so the next generation's knowledge of the way the world works won't be jeopardized. But this should serve as a warning—we are slowly returning to the way things were before. I am very biased on the subject, and say what you like, I tend to blame it all on conservative Christians. I'm always saying that at this rate, in another fifty years we'll have taken away women's suffrage, and in another hundred we'll have slavery again. This is an exaggeration of course, but banning the teaching of evolution is only the first step. The first rolling pebble that triggers the landslide, shall we say.

Beware everyone. It may be too slow to notice, but we may be slowly reversing the progress we've made in the past 236 years. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758991.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758991.page GMT
Honestly I don't see banning evolution here in America being any more effective than banning alcohol was. We have too many atheist or those of other religions that would exercise their right for their children not to learn creationism. I'm sure they would be louder that those who don't want their children to learn evolution since many accept both to an extent anymore. It's just sad and frustrating seeing this happen in other countries.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758999.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3758999.page GMT
Now I think it's too early to determine whether or not we're going backwards. If we are going backwards, we're right at the peak right now and are just turning around. Several states have recently banned gay marriage—states that previously allowed it. North Carolina, for instance. These advances in rights were very recent, and therefore are the first to go if we are in fact reversing all our progress.

Of course, they could just be the conservatives standing in the way of progress instead of them completely reversing it. Too early to tell at this point.

Has anyone noticed how some people have been talking about how we should return to the glorious ways of the Founding Fathers? Well, their way was giving only white men the right to vote and enslaving all the Africans. Yes, people do want to go back, and I think they're all crazy.

Sorry if I'm sounding like some kind of fanatic here. I really don't mean to.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759007.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759007.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759011.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759011.page GMT
"True progress?" You must be joking. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759013.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759013.page GMT
That's what they were doing back in the 70's when I was in JH/HS. Taught both and let you stay for one both or neither as you beliefs suited.

Mendelian genetics was taught entirely separately, since most of us could see the truth in that, even the Mennonites who left class on evolution days.

I always went to both sessions, since I have and interest in science and theology.

One other thing. The Episcopalian bishop and the dean of the cathedral are very good friends. I've played pokemon with their kids and theology, history and ethics with them. And irish dance set, and a good bit of whiskey drinking. They know I'm pagan, and I'm more than welcome to their houses, churches and tables.

I don't equate atheist with intelligent, nor christian with stupidity. It's short sighted to stereotype either.

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759016.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759016.page GMT
And I don't necessarily equate any religion or lack thereof with any particular intelligence level. On both sides it is, to be blunt, the stupid ones who make the news all the time. The atheist who burned down a church, or the clergyman who did you know what. Those are the people we hear about, and thus both sides stereotype the other based on the reported actions of a few.

But I must admit I am very biased against most right-wingers, especially conservative Christians. There's no denying that.

But we digress. The topic at hand was banning the teaching of evolution in schools. Have any other countries done that besides South Korea?]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759029.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759029.page GMT
[url]http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=south-korea-surrenders-creationist-demands[/url]

[quote]The campaign was led by the Society for Textbook Revise (STR), which aims to delete the “error” of evolution from textbooks to “correct” students’ views of the world, according to the society’s website. The society says that its members include professors of biology and high-school science teachers.

The STR is also campaigning to remove content about “the evolution of humans” and “the adaptation of finch beaks based on habitat and mode of sustenance”, a reference to one of the most famous observations in Charles Darwin’s On the Origin of Species. [/quote]

Sets a bad precedent for similar movements in some of the states, some of whom [url=http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/77982.page]are not on good terms with the scientific community already.[/url][/quote]

Most of the Koreans I've met are devout Christians and are highly conservative. The fact that a movement like this is occurring is not surprising. However, Korea is extremely invested in science and technology, so I think it would be unlikely for this movement to succeed. Apparently, this isn't the case. It baffles my mind.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759165.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759165.page GMT
Unfortunately i do agree there is a problem with this, and that is in the home life. Many parents will tell their child "Oh no ignore what you hear in school, creationsim is the only correct viewpoint" or vice versa. The blame therefore isn't with the school in most cases it's society, and parenting.

As such, in places plagued with religious fundamentalism, even teaching solely evolution in schools wouldn't help. Unfortunately the christian church was incredibly effective in it's propaganda and indoctrination in It's hayday, so effective it has become ingrained into some cultures, and become tradition to indoctrinate infants, a tradition which the Church told people, at it's beginning, that they were never to end, or even question. Impressive feat of Cultural "programming" if you ask me.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759177.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759177.page GMT
How is teaching something inherently unscientific and untestable a sign of progress? If anything, that's a sign of regression. Creationism should [i]never[/i] be taught in science class.

[quote]
and While I staunchly subscribe to evolution, I also feel that we should teach it alongside other opinions.
[/quote]

Evolution is not an opinion; it is practically scientific fact at this point. It's the only theory that accurately explains the diversity of life, among many other things. Nothing else comes close, so it should not be taught. Besides which, there are thousands of beliefs about how the world works...are you seriously suggesting we should teach all of those too?

In a religion class? Sure, why not? For the history of religious beliefs? History class. But not science.

[quote]
We shouldn't enforce a person to believe whichever of the theories the government want them to believe. Let them decide for themselves, only then can they understand the full picture, and decide which view point is more plausible. [/quote]

There's a major difference between teaching someone a belief, and teaching someone a scientific theory (one that is probably the most well-substantiated theory ever created).

[quote]
Nowadays I think most People could be intelligent enough to realise Evolution is much more plausible. If given the choice that is, and not forced to believe something without considerring the alternatives.[/quote]

Clearly not, since more than half of Americans doesn't accept evolution at all. I'm sure in other places it's even worse.

[quote]
As such, in places plagued with religious fundamentalism, even teaching solely evolution in schools wouldn't help. Unfortunately the christian church was incredibly effective in it's propaganda and indoctrination in It's hayday, so effective it has become ingrained into some cultures, and become tradition to indoctrinate infants, a tradition which the Church told people, at it's beginning, that they were never to end, or even question. Impressive feat of Cultural "programming" if you ask me.[/quote]

Well, that's why it's imperative that we break the church's stranglehold on scientific progress. We need to end the tradition, not give in to it. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759185.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759185.page GMT
Look at what happened in Cambodia, where what started as a few crazy students protesting turned into a full-scale war against the government. People will fight for what they believe in, especially in the case of religion. Just look at the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, and how under European control the Native Americans were pretty much converted to Christians or converted to corpses.

Sometimes the government has to just give in and let the people have what they want.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759186.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759186.page GMT
To ban the teaching of a basic & quite applicable fact isn't neccesarily giving everyone what they want. But you do raise a point. The best anyone can do is to provide a decent education so that decisions are better informed & are less of a whim.

Choice in a democracy of a nature that satisfies the voter, or action to acheive an objective or avert disaster, can't rest on a whim. Doesn't have to be informed if you don't want it to be (speaking in democratic terms), but knowledge changes everything.

You may have found my previous post here disagreeable, but my point was that politics isn't through & through truth. Sure many politicians will be honest & open-minded, but take all politics with a pinch of salt.

Trends in how much we trust the media provide a window that will be exploited. SO keep your eyes open, that's all I can say.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759192.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759192.page GMT How is teaching something inherently unscientific and untestable a sign of progress? If anything, that's a sign of regression. Creationism should [i]never[/i] be taught in science class.

[quote]
and While I staunchly subscribe to evolution, I also feel that we should teach it alongside other opinions.
[/quote]
Evolution is not an opinion; it is practically scientific fact at this point. It's the only theory that accurately explains the diversity of life, among many other things. Nothing else comes close, so it should not be taught. Besides which, there are thousands of beliefs about how the world works...are you seriously suggesting we should teach all of those too?

In a religion class? Sure, why not? For the history of religious beliefs? History class. But not science.

[quote]
We shouldn't enforce a person to believe whichever of the theories the government want them to believe. Let them decide for themselves, only then can they understand the full picture, and decide which view point is more plausible. [/quote]
There's a major difference between teaching someone a belief, and teaching someone a scientific theory (one that is probably the most well-substantiated theory ever created).

[quote]
Nowadays I think most People could be intelligent enough to realise Evolution is much more plausible. If given the choice that is, and not forced to believe something without considerring the alternatives.[/quote]
Clearly not, since more than half of Americans doesn't accept evolution at all. I'm sure in other places it's even worse.

[quote]
As such, in places plagued with religious fundamentalism, even teaching solely evolution in schools wouldn't help. Unfortunately the christian church was incredibly effective in it's propaganda and indoctrination in It's hayday, so effective it has become ingrained into some cultures, and become tradition to indoctrinate infants, a tradition which the Church told people, at it's beginning, that they were never to end, or even question. Impressive feat of Cultural "programming" if you ask me.[/quote]
Well, that's why it's imperative that we break the church's stranglehold on scientific progress. We need to end the tradition, not give in to it. [/quote]
1. So, forcing people to be indoctrinated with only one point of view, is progress? Even if Evolution is pretty well definitely right, Not allowing people, especially unscientific people, to whom it makes little difference, to make their own decision, is unfair, and beginning to go down the road of Autocracy. I think Creationism is an outdated scientific theory, which should be considerred as just that. We shouldn't just forget it, and say because it's wrong, with no evidence we'll just completely erase it from history. Science is as much about making mistakes, and working out what doesn't work, or isn't true, as much about making discoveries. These mistakes and old now-untrue theories make up as much of our knowledge as our discoveries.
2. When did i say it should be taught in science class? It should be "taught" as something to remember, something we now know to be wrong. Similar to the way Lamarckism is "taught". If people want to believe it as a part of their religion that's ultimately their choice, we shouldn't be able to force them to have to believe something they don't want to.
3. Creationism and religion in general, is an old scientific theory. It is offerring a possible way of explaining Our Universe. It has been replaced by Evolution, and modern science in general. This is because Of the better explanation evolution offers. However we should still give people the information of each idea, and the evidence for each, and then let them decide which is better. Evolution would be perceived as more accurate to the rational person, as it actually has evidence.
4. There's a difference between understanding and accepting. Many of them would be able to understand it if they wanted, and weren't forced by someone else, to only consider only one opinion. I know [u]Many[/u] christians who can understand the concept of evolution pretty well, but still believe creationism instead. I don't know why, but there we are.
5. Merely a comment.

I am not suggesting we teach Evolution as equal with evolution. However we should atleast give people an awareness of it, and they can do whatever they want with their knowledge of creationism. It would be irresponsible as a society to simply forget our heritage, because it has been largely replaced. People can decide either way if they want to follow the reasonable Evolution theory, or put their faith in Creationism, but we should always allow it to be their decision. We should inform them of both different ideas with their observed respective merits ( or not, in the case of creationism), and how modern science views them both. This will give them the information required to make an informed decision of which is the better explanation. As the facts all point to evolution, without any external influence, a person would normally lean towards evolution and rightly so.

Just indoctrinating People with whatever opinion you feel is better, is the beginning of a rocky road.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759211.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759211.page GMT
In my high school we weren't taught just evolution and creationism. We were taught about all of the major religions. And they did it in a perfect fashion that I admire my school for. What they did was evolution was taught in the required Biology course, and then they taught the religions in the required World Studies class. The religions were taught just like your average study on a culture, because that is what we were doing, studing a different way of living. At the same time though it was allowing everyone to get a taste and understand other people's beliefs without any 'fire and brimstone' if you didn't believe in any of it.

I can tell you that no one walked out of either class, there was no fights or scoffs, and everyone (at least visably) was happy. Since both of these classes were required, no one side got more attention than the other. It's a system that I wouldn't change one bit.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759224.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759224.page GMT
I kind of wish the school would bring these essays out of whatever closet they keep them in and show them to the world.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759257.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759257.page GMT 1. So, forcing people to be indoctrinated with only one point of view, is progress?
[/quote]

Did you even read what I said? You seem to be under the assumption that evolution is a "point of view" or an "opinion," which it most certainly is not. Evolution is an scientific theory, and...well, really, do I have to repeat myself again?

[quote=ParallelSands]There's a major difference between teaching someone a belief, and teaching someone a scientific theory (one that is probably the most well-substantiated theory ever created). [/quote]

[quote]
Even if Evolution is pretty well definitely right, Not allowing people, especially unscientific people, to whom it makes little difference, to make their own decision, is unfair, and beginning to go down the road of Autocracy. [/quote]

I'm starting to think you don't actually know what a theory is. And autocracy? Are you kidding?

[quote]
I think Creationism is an outdated scientific theory, which should be considerred as just that.
[/quote]

Correction: creationism is not a scientific theory; it is basically an hypothesis, with absoutely no evidence to back it up.

[quote]
We shouldn't just forget it, and say because it's wrong, with no evidence we'll just completely erase it from history.
[/quote]

When did I ever say that creationism should just be forgotten? I never said anything of the sort.

[quote]
Science is as much about making mistakes, and working out what doesn't work, or isn't true, as much about making discoveries. These mistakes and old now-untrue theories make up as much of our knowledge as our discoveries.[/quote]

You're right, that is what science is all about. But as I already said, creationism is not science. Creationism basically amounts to "god did it," and that is entirely untestable...so please, explain to me how this is scientific?

[quote]
2. When did i say it should be taught in science class?
[/quote]

You tell me, because I didn't say you did either. I was merely pointing out that creationism shouldn't be taught in science class.

[quote]
It should be "taught" as something to remember, something we now know to be wrong. Similar to the way Lamarckism is "taught". If people want to believe it as a part of their religion that's ultimately their choice, we shouldn't be able to force them to have to believe something they don't want to.[/quote]

Perhaps, but not in science.

[quote]
3. Creationism and religion in general, is an [b]old scientific theory.[/b] [/quote]

No, it isn't.

[quote]
It is offerring a possible way of explaining Our Universe. It has been replaced by Evolution, and modern science in general. This is because Of the better explanation evolution offers. However we should still give people the information of each idea, and the evidence for each, and then let them decide which is better. Evolution would be perceived as more accurate to the rational person, as it actually has evidence.[/quote]

Okay. So I guess we should just teach [i]every alternate idea in existence[/i]. Because, you know...that's only fair. Let's teach pagan beliefs, and Hinduism, Islam, every sect of Christianity, Shintoism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Rastafarian, Scientology, Intelligent Design, Judaism, Jainism, Deism, conspiracy theories, Norse mythology, Native American mythology...

For history class, or especially a world religion class, this isn't much of a problem, however. Just so we're clear.

[quote]
[b](1)[/b] There's a difference between understanding and accepting. Many of them would be able to understand it if they wanted, and weren't forced by someone else, to only consider only one opinion. [b](2)[/b] I know [u]Many[/u] christians who can understand the concept of evolution pretty well, but still believe creationism instead. I don't know why, but there we are.[/quote]

1) Yes, perhaps. By that logic, though, we shouldn't really be able to teach anything in school, because that would be "forcing people." And I've already said that scientific theories aren't exactly opinions. But, whatever.
2) Granted, many probably can. Still, the fact remains that more than half of Americans don't accept evolution at all...which is pretty awful, honestly.

[quote]
I am not suggesting we teach Evolution as equal with evolution. However we should atleast give people an awareness of it, and they can do whatever they want with their knowledge of creationism. It would be irresponsible as a society to simply forget our heritage, because it has been largely replaced. People can decide either way if they want to follow the reasonable Evolution theory, or put their faith in Creationism, but we should always allow it to be their decision. We should inform them of both different ideas with their observed respective merits ( or not, in the case of creationism), and how modern science views them both. This will give them the information required to make an informed decision of which is the better explanation. As the facts all point to evolution, without any external influence, a person would normally lean towards evolution and rightly so.
[/quote]

Again, I'm not...quite sure where you got that idea that I said these beliefs should be abandoned. I just think it shouldn't be taught in science class.

[quote]
Just indoctrinating People with whatever opinion you feel is better, is the beginning of a rocky road.[/quote]

That's true for [i]opinions[/i], yes. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759278.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759278.page GMT 1.A supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, esp. one based on general principles independent of the thing to be...: "Darwin's theory of evolution"

Creationism explains how we came to be. Thus, according to Google, it [b]is [/b]a theory. Doesn't matter if it makes sense or has evidence.

"Okay. So I guess we should just teach every alternate idea in existence. Because, you know...that's only fair. Let's teach pagan beliefs, and Hinduism, Islam, every sect of Christianity, Shintoism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Rastafarian, Scientology, Intelligent Design, Judaism, Jainism, Deism, conspiracy theories, Norse mythology, Native American mythology... "

My school does teach most of those if you take the right classes. We're already doing it just fine bud.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759280.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759280.page GMT 1.A supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, esp. one based on general principles independent of the thing to be...: "Darwin's theory of evolution"

Creationism explains how we came to be. Thus, according to Google, it [b]is [/b]a theory.


[/quote]

Scientific theory =/= theory.

[quote]A scientific theory is “a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment.” Scientists create scientific theories from hypotheses that have been corroborated through the scientific method, then gather evidence to test their accuracy. As with all forms of scientific knowledge, scientific theories are inductive in nature and do not make apodictic propositions; instead, they aim for predictive and explanatory force.[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

[quote]
My school does teach most of those if you take the right classes. We're already doing it just fine bud.[/quote]
[/quote]

[quote=ParallelSands][b]For history class, or especially a world religion class, this isn't much of a problem, however. Just so we're clear. [/b][/quote]]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759281.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759281.page GMT
Teaching evolution really doesn't have anything to do with religion and if you want to think it does, then we're just going to have to scrap science entirely because there's a whole lot more than just evolution that's in conflict with ideas in religion. Enjoy your new Middle Ages.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759288.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759288.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759290.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759290.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759291.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759291.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759299.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759299.page GMT Time to convert everyone.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759301.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759301.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759314.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759314.page GMT
The republicans got in bed with the religious right in the 80s because there was an untapped source of campaign workers, pledges and dollars there and waiting, and all that had to be said (at the time) was "we'll protect your churches and separatism". As the Regan and Bush tenures were extended, so did the promises to keep the coffers open.

It was not that hard to sell a policy of return to the good ol' days of family values when men were men and everybody was neighbourly and pie was a nickel. The sunbelt seniles like my mother lapped that up like cream and ran right for their checkbooks.

Because of?

Fear.

My mother's "greatest generation" (self named) is completely freaked out about what's going to happen when the hippies control Washington.

So they cling to a values system than didn't exist except in Norman Rockwell paintings for white people, and when God made us all be good.

People's values change profoundly when they are looking at death that isn't an imminent threat (you don't have the gun at your temple, but you're afraid it may happen).

So let's have another cup of coffee and let's have another piece of pie...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let's_Have_Another_Cup_of_Coffee

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759337.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759337.page GMT
And you have conveniently answered a question I hadn't asked yet. I was going to ask "Why did the Republicans become really religious and start getting in the way of scientific progress in the 1980s?"

So now we know. Money.

Power doesn't necessarily corrupt, though often it does. The possibility of getting a hell of a lot of money corrupts even more, because most people would be thrilled to have a million dollars land on them and would use it to fulfill their personal interests. (If you have lots of power but you have 2 cents in the bank, you can't advance your personal interests as much as you can with little power and 5 million dollars in the bank.)

Having a lot of money and power will also get you a lot of followers. And if the money and power corrupts you, then those followers will be corrupt as well.

This relates to the topic at hand because of another question: Is it the corrupt voters who pressure the politicians stand in the way of scientific progress or the corrupt politicians who convince the voters to stand in the way of scientific progress?]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759378.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759378.page GMT
My family is wealthy. I can tell you that it didn't "corrupt" any of us unduly. Don't imagine that money automatically equates to greed. In point of fact, philanthropy is very important to my people, as it is to most of the people I grew up with and went to school with.

I've always been amused/appalled by this presumption. It's a bit like saying "all poor people are good and pure."

I've seen a great deal more corruption and abuse of power by people who have very little power, and therefore abuse what little they have.

As to the last, the tail wags the dog politically.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759390.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759390.page GMT
But, money & power are incentives/means, of sorts, to such an end. On the other hand, there are those of wealth who do go into philanthropy, & most of wealth pay their taxes as it is.

People either do decent things or get on with their lives, or they pursue other ways of profiting, some of these surprising.

Whether a lover or a fighter, whether decent or greedy, it's a case of having the bigger guns (money & information etc. are already powerful stuff).
Don't presume, but by all means, take any establishment or profiteer with a pinch of salt. Then you can find their true nature.
They're not labels or profiles, but windows. Like a minor version of playing god. Playing God isn't always a disaster recipe, but it's potent & volatile at very high levels (& depending on the situation).

Do we use them only in need (& hopefully not to the expense of others), or do we immediately do what many (but not all) like to do with assets of such a nature?

There was probably a fear factor in the pressure on S.Korea. But there will always be layers & layers to it; &, with all sincerity, oppurtunism will lead to more.

Fear is just part of survival, the core factor. British politicians have the links they do with the papers because they desire a buffer to make themselves look good (I've listened to the audiobook 'winston's war', & of course, you also have the leveson enquiry). And similar deals are struck worldwide.

Asking to alter what has been proven, read over & irrefutably confirmed is driven somewhat by the seeking of worth & power, which links in to survival. This may well pass the fear factor on the way, as you've said.

Many things may well be driven by fear/survival/social standing in the troop or pack. But this is a questino of how it manifests itself. Asking the state to change the rules for absolutely everyone, possibly affecting the future education of future citizens, does seem a bit much.
But we can relate this to a trend, for certain. Though there is undeniably more to it.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759410.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759410.page GMT
I naturally distrust politicians and the very rich. That's my nature.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759428.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759428.page GMT
I naturally distrust politicians and the very rich. That's my nature.[/quote]

OK, I'll pass that I spend a lot of my time working with homeless people. And here we're talking the poorest people this country has, and while I am really close to many of the people whose dogs I vaccinate out by the river, I regularly see the aftermath of people whose faces were held in fires because they wouldn't tell where they hid the MD2020, mentally ill women who are pregnant by any number of men who use them because they can, and like stellar examples of how good people are to each other in the absence of resources.

And when I try to help some of them find services, I run up against petty social workers who reject food or medical care because the starving pregnant mentally ill woman can't produce a birth certificate or remember what her name used to be. Or who stop their applications because they don't have a "valid mailing address" of their own. And shelters who will turn away children because they are the wrong sex or colour and send them back into the night.

I don't blame the desperately poor for some of what they do, but morality is not meted out on the basis of income, no more than any other quality.

... when you peel away the skin...]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759446.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759446.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759450.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759450.page GMT
And what is your job? Sounds like you're doing your best to make society a better place.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759456.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759456.page GMT
And what is your job? Sounds like you're doing your best to make society a better place.[/quote]

Whether the oppurtunities or possibilities increase or decrease is really dependant. Small amounts of money can mean a lot when you're on the edge. Though I have to say, it is a case of having the bigger guns.
Some people wouldn't lift a finger if you upgraded their arsenal (metaphorically speaking), but others would catch a window.

But then again, there are both philanthropists & the corrupt, on each different scale.
Both good & bad can occur. But committing ill acts can go further, when in a seat of greater power.
So by all means, be skeptical to authority (albeit co-operative, of course).

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759469.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759469.page GMT
And what is your job? Sounds like you're doing your best to make society a better place.[/quote]

Yeah, a poor person MAY be twice as intelligent, but it's not predicated to follow that they WILL be. Or kinder, or less valiant, or more miserly... What a person is is not what they have. But whether they survive at all is about resources. And resources will not change that no-longer-poor person a bad person, even if they later become rich. See?

I'll tell you what I'm about via PM, so I don't sidetrack this thread any further than it already is.




]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759474.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759474.page GMT
Income isn't all of morality, but it represents a tool & a window. Like being able to fire lightning from your hands or turn into a powerful demon, in metaphorical terms.
You can either do good or bad, both potentially more impacting. do you provide renewable energy with your lightning, or singe a guy's face off?

I don't know where we'd be without Bill Gate's kind donations to charity. Then again, I'm better off without many of the corporate influences in politics.

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759477.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759477.page GMT [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onLPDegxXx8[/youtube]]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759696.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759696.page GMT
Who's right? No one knows. It's all opinion and no amount of science, philosophy, or any other medium can explain which is or which is not good or evil.

How then can we say that one idea is worse than the other? All seek the gains to their own disposition at the expense of the other. In that sense they are considerably wrong to one another.

The ultimate evil then is not so much the ideas, but the arguments and the dissension created thereof. The hatred and malicious ill will devised by the strong opinions, not the opinions themselves.

Yet how is that even wrong or right? Who knows?

That is why it is not a matter of morality, for who is to say what is morale?

What even is survival other than the harm to another for one's own gain. Many cultures adore the idea of "loving your brother as yourself." The very idea of nature in competition with itself and against itself for the survival of the fittest trashes that view of loving. After all, love is the expression of selfless compassion for another being at your own expense, rather than theirs.

So why emotions? Why love or joy or even compassion? Why should I do any of that when nature itself is a hostile and bigoted creature looking to preserve its own species? And as I stated before, who is to say that this view is wrong or right?

The answers will forever elude the world. . . ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759738.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759738.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759745.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759745.page GMT
If nature is by chance and fighting for survival, there is no law except the law of survival. According to scientists, there is no fundamental law as there is no supreme being to issue the law except nature which will dictate the laws to its own advantage.

Evolution will dictate the laws of prey and predator. Killing a baby? Animals will kill a human baby and eat it for food. Is that wrong? So what's the difference if a human kills a human baby for food? Animals do it, and we are evolved from animals. There is now law according to evolution, only chance, survival of the fittest, and death to the weaker species.

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759749.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759749.page GMT
@Isak

I wouldn't say so. But, interesting trick thar.

They would judge the act badly in theory (we know how our culture & psyche work now, folks), but if they have no evidence of this, they're unlikely to think it happened in practice (even if it did), so they don't judge the killer. They do if they find out about the fiasco though.

IF word got out, judgement would come pretty swiftly based on past experience, & people would find the affair obscene. If not, how will they know?

But to be fairly honest, we have formulated these rules (of sorts) to judge these things, & we've even gotten to such theoretical questions as the one you pose. Though the rules themselves are buggy here & there.

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759750.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759750.page GMT
Hey everybody, welcome to Albania. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759898.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3759898.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3760208.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3760208.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3760215.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3760215.page GMT
Hey everybody, welcome to Albania. [/quote]

That's the thing; on the one hand, building a code that works for everyone helps to break up the conflicts otherwise so common in our nature in the past.

On the other, dogmatic approaches to the question of which laws to follow cause even larger scale conflicts at times.
From the cold war to the crusades.
Ideology always seems to float some trigger-happy individual's boat as a pretext for conflict, from time to time.

You mentioned Albania. I'd like to hear more about it; sounds interesting.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3760509.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3760509.page GMT
I would've thought this country (USA) would pull some stupid crap like that..

Well I'm glad I've already graduated from HS AND live in the US. -_-]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763058.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763058.page GMT
Now, this business about evolution being banned from South Korea's textbooks shouldn't be that big a surprise. In fact, it almost happened here in the United States. Remember Rick Santorum, anyone? Yeah, he dropped out of the presidential race and everyone forgot about him and his idiocy. But during the campaign, he said that if he became president, he would ban the teaching of evolution in America's schools and make all the teachers teach creationism instead. Fortunately, he dropped out of the race, so the next generation's knowledge of the way the world works won't be jeopardized. But this should serve as a warning—we are slowly returning to the way things were before. I am very biased on the subject, and say what you like, I tend to blame it all on conservative Christians. I'm always saying that at this rate, in another fifty years we'll have taken away women's suffrage, and in another hundred we'll have slavery again. This is an exaggeration of course, but banning the teaching of evolution is only the first step. The first rolling pebble that triggers the landslide, shall we say.

Beware everyone. It may be too slow to notice, but we may be slowly reversing the progress we've made in the past 236 years. [/quote]

Oh I wouldn't worry about this, unlike the 1600's-1900's people will stop being subservient to the idiot majority, at this point if Conservative-Christians (or whatever) try that nonsense their will be CHAOS.

Will that decision on their part be worth it? I think not.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763060.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763060.page GMT
No kidding... ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763064.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763064.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763075.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763075.page GMT
Thank you, i realize this. no need to say anything it was a mistake I know an edit button works, let's contribute to the topic instead of my posts alright?

Anyway about the good/evil thing, it's only their to keep society stable and by proxy keeping the species alive as well.

No philosphy or religion is required it's simply a natural instinct of social survival.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763077.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763077.page GMT
Thank you, i realize this. no need to say anything it was a mistake I know an edit button works, let's contribute to the topic instead of my posts alright?

Anyway about the good/evil thing, it's only their to keep society stable and by proxy keeping the species alive as well.

No philosphy or religion is required it's simply a natural instinct of social survival.[/quote]

Consensus itself is a toned down version of the tribal structure of early man, & the troop structure of our primate ancestors.
Fears will be dubbed evil eventually. Thne related traits will also be frowned upon; such as those we witness in Hyenas.
We even may have learnt to sing by trying to outsing Hyenas in disputes, according to some theories.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763131.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763131.page GMT
Exactly and giving in to fear itself creates "evil" as well. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763166.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763166.page GMT Both of which represented the competition with such animals as hyenas (well, the equivalent of the hyena in that time period) etc.

We have an instinct to fear snakes, even when we've yet to get ot the stage at which most other fears are formed.
And here's the mind-blower: the Adam & Eve story represents temptation, Satan etc., as.... a snake!

Weird or what?]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763461.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763461.page GMT Both of which represented the competition with such animals as hyenas (well, the equivalent of the hyena in that time period) etc.

We have an instinct to fear snakes, even when we've yet to get ot the stage at which most other fears are formed.
And here's the mind-blower: the Adam & Eve story represents temptation, Satan etc., as.... a snake!

Weird or what?[/quote]
satan was probeble put as a snake because of peoples natural fear os snakes.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763466.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763466.page GMT
Weird that people & snakes are such polar opposites.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763477.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763477.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763479.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763479.page GMT I never sad evil but most culcher do not put there hands in to snake mouths do they]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763487.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763487.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763488.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763488.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763492.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763492.page GMT
Perhaps you need new friends.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763494.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763494.page GMT
Perhaps you need new friends.[/quote]
ther not my friends but they are my enerys
I know a lot of people]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763496.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763496.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763499.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763499.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763505.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763505.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763507.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763507.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763511.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763511.page GMT
Some browsers have a built in spell check feature. Before you click "submit" correct the underlined words. Spelling is critically important in S&S, nobody will take you seriously if you can't form a proper sentence.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763516.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763516.page GMT
I don't like this personally lol.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763647.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763647.page GMT
As we advance, we put major fears to the back of our minds, but this varies between cultures.
Though to be honest, several fears more likely to aid our self-preservation in past are easier to develop.

These include such things as snakes, for example.
Often such things as guns & fast cars don't sink in as easily. Not saying they don't eventually sink in, of course.



]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763934.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3763934.page GMT
As we advance, we put major fears to the back of our minds, but this varies between cultures.
Though to be honest, several fears more likely to aid our self-preservation in past are easier to develop.

These include such things as snakes, for example.
Often such things as guns & fast cars don't sink in as easily. Not saying they don't eventually sink in, of course.
[/quote]

Especially since my guns ARE about self preservation. Just because you don't need one, should not predicate me not having one. I need a manure spreader, too. If you fall into it when running, you will die. I could easily kill someone with that.

Interesting little page on the snake in religious culture.

http://www.uned.es/geo-1-historia-antigua-universal/SERPIENTES/gimbutas%20segunda%20parte_25_sep.htm

Most of the time it has been revered and cherished rather then vilified. I certainly grew up being taught to love them and see them as lucky and incredibly beautiful. We had a bullsnake under the house that we fed once a week to be sure she stayed (they will hunt mice every day even if fed).

And this where there were 3 kinds of poisonous snakes, all of which we moved with snake sticks, but did not kill, since they do more good than harm (even though the occasional stupid cow got bitten on the nose.

One of the earliest images I remember of the goddess is the minoan snake dancer goddess. I was born and raised pagan.

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3764239.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3764239.page GMT
There are plenty of reasons one may need a firearm, of course.
Keeping records of guns, drawing the line between your agricultural tool & a really high-end weapon such as a rocket launcher or chaingun, that kinda thing.
People do need approval for certain kinds of agricultural fertiliser too; the kind that can be tinkered around with, only to wind up with lethal explosives (given the expertise).

Any sort of firearm that's within reason is obviously hugely helpful in running any sort of pastoral agriculture.
If someone can prove (preferably through legal documentation) they can use it responsibly (agriculture or research ec. & whatnot), then like with cars, go ahead.
There are so many things we could voice that for; in many cases, things that do admittedly need regulation & to keep an eye out, but really should [b]not[/b]be outright banned. (I'd go ahead & say Marijuana, but each to their own. You can be prescribed Marijuana in California for certain illnesses, for example).

Many people are edgy around complete freedom with several things, but banning them is highly unfeasible.
It's about the middleman solution. What about, let's say, morphine? Many people with certain afflictions couldn't do without it, but you can't just hand it out to any old person (as it is a form of heroin, of course).

Snakes have been great sources of wonder. Used as entertainment, used to symbolise healing, that kinda thing.
On the other hand, many psychologists would state that we're more prepared to develop certain fears anyways.
Not that we end up developing them, of course.

Any proto-human that took more naturally to fears of snakes & other dangerous things would be more likely to survive & pass this on. But, as this doesn't matter a great deal anymore, take a snake & dance with it.

For any of you daring people out there, there's a new kind of russian roulette; snake-charming random snakes, one of them being deaf.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3765432.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3765432.page GMT
No thanks, I'll take my guns, and I prefer legalized recreational pot, and very much prefer the state keep it's nose out of my bedroom and my stable.

Let them devote their time and my tax money to putting out fires, fixing roads and making sure we have clean drinking water.

I don't need some committee telling me how to live my life, however supposedly beneficent.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3765539.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3765539.page GMT
Regardless, we have passed into a place that is extremely distant from the original topic of this thread.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3765564.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3765564.page GMT
Regardless, we have passed into a place that is extremely distant from the original topic of this thread.[/quote]

It's a pattern, not with just this post, but with many of them. If he perceives a social problem, government regulation or prohibition is the ready answer. Usually by a "government" consisting of scientists, forgetting that people should indeed have freedom to believe and think what they want -- even if I think it's repulsive or stupid -- as long as they don't act on it.

I am now facing having to microchip all of my horses, and put a GPS tracking device on my home -- the 5th wheel I live in -- to make sure I can be tracked as a potential terrorist. Not with cause, but because people with the mobility I have MIGHT take advantage of that to have roving terrorist cells invading camping clubs.

I don't mind someone knowing I have a double barreled 10-gauge (which would rip a person in half), but I mind the idea that my guns be taken away from me until I can prove "need", because proving "need" leads to some very crazy abuses of power -- ask anyone caught in the social services systems.

(edit)

And in addition to the tracking device, the proposed rule (which is homeland security, and therefore not subject to due process) I would also have to prove I have a brick-and-mortar residence and I'm camping for "recreation", and I would need to register my location monthly and have the administrator for the campground or landowner (since mine is on private property) validate and attest to the truth.

The park rangers are LOVING that. Especially the ones working the huge national parks in remote areas like Alaska.
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3765588.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3765588.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3765591.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3765591.page GMT
Voodoo.

No, seriously, I would have to have the license number of my camper painted on the roof to be clearly visible from the air -- which is real cool, since I have to surface the roof every fall to make sure it doesn't leak when the snow melts.

And I would have to invest in a (not yet produced) emitter that would ping it's identity in response to a request from some to-be-determined device. Something like RFID only long range.

But they were talking about starting the location registration sooner. Possibly for tent campers, too. And homeless camps, since terrorists could set up there.

There are many people who like me have made the decision not to keep a piece of dirt, but rather to invest the money on something we enjoy more. I'm lucky, in that we have the family trust property, so I always have a "dirt" address that I can reference, even though the only time I spend there is holidays and the occasional times I go through LP too fast in the winter.
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3765601.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3765601.page GMT
1: No doubt I believe in free opinion, but science is also an important tool for making judgements. A citizen's choice or a political decision, & belief no doubt, is ultimately up to them, but ultimately, observations & study of the world around us make it easier to make things work positively. Not to mention passing ths information on. The internet was influentla in the Arab spring etc, so there's no doubt of the benefit of information.

What I believe is that science & findings should be taken into account, rather than corporate & other influence alone (like the big companies some political figures are backed by). That's ultimately down to the politicians, but proven & solid statistics work effectively in debate, & may lead ot a change in heart. Not to mention a scientifically sound one.

Of course, I may have come across as proposing that scientists should be givne domination; this is not true.
Because obviously, that contradicts the idea of elected leaders.
Firstly, I believe in an efficient education system that passes on knowledge to future generations.
Secondly, they can then form their own opinion without persecution, but these should be kept seperate from the state (i.e: secularism).

And finally, I believe that science & information can be very helpful. Research can even point out problems that need solving. The scientific community, however, should be equal to the rest of us. But their science is a helpful resource, & underfunding in education needs to stop if we want to keep science going.

2: I view firearms as one would view cars or something like that. You should by rights be able to possess one, regardless of whether you need it or not, like you would other assets or products. However, like special agricultural fertilisers (those from which explosives can be derived), it's not simplistic.

There are already records of who owns a firearm, & attempts to abolish these records have tried & failed.
Whether anything else should be in place is more open to interpretation, but by all means, for certain vocations, guns are important. So prohibition is not feasible. However easy it should be is up to you & the people.

3: Let's be honest, I don't like the sound of this GPS thing either. I don't understand why they're tracking people who they think might be terrorists so closely.
Anyone heard of the case of Kerry Sanders, who was arrested & only released due ot the chance arrest of the actual criminal, Robert Sanders?
It's generally wise to keep an eye out in certain aspects, but the core problem is how far this stretches.
So many microchips.
It's convoluted to say the least.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3766101.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3766101.page GMT
vampriess, on the first pg you have to remember at the time in the area people believe that the host should protect his guest no matter what, even at the cost of his own family,
and also im religious, now do you think if theres a god powerful enough to make the universe and earth and people, and to as in numbers 23:28 "then the Lord open the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, 'what have i done to make you beat me three times?'" then do you think that this god could stop inbreeding deformities till people were no longer related?]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3785812.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3785812.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3785815.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3785815.page GMT
vampriess, on the first pg you have to remember at the time in the area people believe that the host should protect his guest no matter what, even at the cost of his own family,
and also im religious, now do you think if theres a god powerful enough to make the universe and earth and people, and to as in numbers 23:28 "then the Lord open the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, 'what have i done to make you beat me three times?'" then do you think that this god could stop inbreeding deformities till people were no longer related?[/quote]

I'm not really sure what you're driving at, but please YOU remember that the christian god may be the only god for you, but he is far from the only god worshiped (and in many cases people here prefer agnosticism or atheism). IF one is not a believer, then quoting miraculous doings from your scripture instills no more proof then for me to read you passages from the bhagavad gita.

If one does not give preference to the christian god, then quoting the jist of the story is very much preferable to chapter and verse. I had no trouble understanding her, and the willingness to throw one's virgin daughters to the mob IS a salient point of the story, no matter how you would excuse or diminish it.

Don't lecture me, either. I'm 11 hours away from a degree in divinities, and have done critical and scholarly reading of the bible, the torah and other salient texts.
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3785946.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3785946.page GMT [/quote]

No "lectures" means less entertainment in the science section for me.

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3785999.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3785999.page GMT [/quote]

No "lectures" means less entertainment in the science section for me.

[/quote]

Actually, statements like that usually function more or less as taunts --- not that I would EVER think of meaning them that way. Not me. Not ever.

I'd hate to ruin your fun (or my own). ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3786025.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3786025.page GMT
[size=18]the ease with which guns are obtained in many states is personally distressing to me.[/size]

[size=24]the ease with which guns are obtained in many states is personally distressing to me.[/size]

[/quote]

So you're saying NO FPS Russia. At all?

I have lost my faith in the administrators.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3786107.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3786107.page GMT
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3786287.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3786287.page GMT
vampriess, on the first pg you have to remember at the time in the area people believe that the host should protect his guest no matter what, even at the cost of his own family,
and also im religious, now do you think if theres a god powerful enough to make the universe and earth and people, and to as in numbers 23:28 "then the Lord open the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, 'what have i done to make you beat me three times?'" then do you think that this god could stop inbreeding deformities till people were no longer related?[/quote]

...A "scientific theory" is not the same as the common, G-pop term for "theory'

Gravity and a host of other things are theoiries too.

Scientific Theory =/= Conspiracy theory

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3788602.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3788602.page GMT
If you'll excuse me, I'm going back to stockpiling ammo. There's no telling when Hitler will come back from the dark side of the moon!]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3788817.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3788817.page GMT
vampriess, on the first pg you have to remember at the time in the area people believe that the host should protect his guest no matter what, even at the cost of his own family,
and also im religious, now do you think if theres a god powerful enough to make the universe and earth and people, and to as in numbers 23:28 "then the Lord open the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, 'what have i done to make you beat me three times?'" then do you think that this god could stop inbreeding deformities till people were no longer related?[/quote]

...A "scientific theory" is not the same as the common, G-pop term for "theory'

Gravity and a host of other things are theoiries too.

Scientific Theory =/= Conspiracy theory

[/quote]

pistol and a gun,
a pistol is more exact then a gun.... therory is a theory no matter the label]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3788820.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3788820.page GMT
That's where you're wrong.

Most people use "theory" to mean a conjecture based on loose or circumstantial evidence; often it's used as a stand-in for "elaborate guess". In fields of scientific inquiry, for a proposition to be labeled a theory at all suggests a great deal of experimental evidence and peer revision is behind it.

A scientific theory carries far more weight than my friend's "theories" about alien abduction, and since this is the science section, the difference matters to us.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3788823.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3788823.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3788826.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3788826.page GMT
I can understand your concerns, terra. If it assuages you any, I'm a Christian and have no trouble with the theory of evolution. Granted, I'm also not the most knowledgeable about science, so take what I say with a pillar of salt (BAHAHA) but arguments on here aren't the way to solving things.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3788839.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3788839.page GMT
I can understand your concerns, terra. If it assuages you any, I'm a Christian and have no trouble with the theory of evolution. Granted, I'm also not the most knowledgeable about science, so take what I say with a pillar of salt (BAHAHA) but arguments on here aren't the way to solving things.[/quote]

hmm]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3788841.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3788841.page GMT
vampriess, on the first pg you have to remember at the time in the area people believe that the host should protect his guest no matter what, even at the cost of his own family,
and also im religious, now do you think if theres a god powerful enough to make the universe and earth and people, and to as in numbers 23:28 "then the Lord open the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, 'what have i done to make you beat me three times?'" then do you think that this god could stop inbreeding deformities till people were no longer related?[/quote]

...A "scientific theory" is not the same as the common, G-pop term for "theory'

Gravity and a host of other things are theoiries too.

Scientific Theory =/= Conspiracy theory

[/quote]

pistol and a gun,
a pistol is more exact then a gun.... therory is a theory no matter the label[/quote]

Uh, no it isn't a common usage theory is VERY different from a scientific theory, don't post again until you finish high school biology, with a "B" at least.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789020.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789020.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789024.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789024.page GMT
It means that a poorly funded educational system has doomed you to a life of ignorance. At least you still have all that bliss.



The scientific community really needs a new word to replace "theory" since nobody seems to grasp the concept.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789154.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789154.page GMT
It means that a poorly funded educational system has doomed you to a life of ignorance. At least you still have all that bliss.



The scientific community really needs a new word to replace "theory" since nobody seems to grasp the concept.[/quote]

I've recommended this Sagan book before, and it's an entertaining read, aimed at people who need to understand scientific method and theorems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789226.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789226.page GMT
It means that a poorly funded educational system has doomed you to a life of ignorance. At least you still have all that bliss.



The scientific community really needs a new word to replace "theory" since nobody seems to grasp the concept.[/quote]

I've recommended this Sagan book before, and it's an entertaining read, aimed at people who need to understand scientific method and theorems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World[/quote]
i got to the second sentence then my head hurt]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789271.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789271.page GMT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World[/quote]

That book should be required reading for all political offices and teaching positions.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789282.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789282.page GMT
There is no such scientific theory. A scientific theory must be experimentally and observationally confirmed by many different sources. It must be able to predict future events and explain past events pertaining to the theory. It must be in line with other theories that already exist.

Basically, scientific theories have been proven many times over, while your sleep-deprived dinosaur hypothesis cannot even begin to be proven.
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789351.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789351.page GMT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World[/quote]

That book should be required reading for all political offices and teaching positions.[/quote]

They'd be getting off lightly compared to living around my dad for 25 years... I can still see the light in his eyes when he'd lean forward, tip his fingers into a tent and say "Is that what you REALLY think?"

**Danger Will Robinson Danger**]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789354.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789354.page GMT
Exactly, it seems terrapod has confused the word "hypothesis" with "Theory" like ever so many "Science-ignorant" people before him.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789619.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3789619.page GMT
Lmao, oh man, you made my day, that must have been the funniest thing I've read on this forum this year, just make this mental picture in your head of dinos being unable to keep their eyes open and slowly collapsing all at once and you'll see what I mean lol.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3790083.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3790083.page GMT
Once the dinos ran out of food due to the biosphere collapse, they'd be too starved to maintain their large bodies & would thus begin feeling rather drowsy anyways.
It is but a hypothesis, but from what we know, you can't expect to keep fully awake when running low on energy.

But we have nothing to confirm that sleep deprivation had anyting to do with this. All we're doing is hinting at how, maybe, starvation among the dinosaurs led to possible drowsiness. And how can we confirm this?

Though if you get my mental picture, constant searching for food & the decreased temperatures of the earth due ot the large overhanging ash clouds can't have helped their sleep. You can't sleep well when too cold.
Then, this may have further deprived thier energy.

But, it's just another hypothesis. We've yet to confirm, but, it's of interest if you think about it.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3790101.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3790101.page GMT
Nope, quite sure it's not of interest to anyone.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3790499.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3790499.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793056.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793056.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793125.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793125.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793139.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793139.page GMT the Lords power]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793142.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793142.page GMT the Lords power[/quote]

How does it interact with molecules?]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793145.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793145.page GMT the Lords power[/quote]

How does it interact with molecules?[/quote]

ask him when he reads your life]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793146.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793146.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793147.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793147.page GMT the Lords power[/quote]

How does it interact with molecules?[/quote]

ask him when he reads your life[/quote]

You seem to have asked him some things already, so maybe you could put in a good word for us and ask him right now. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793149.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793149.page GMT
they must hate you too]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793150.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793150.page GMT the Lords power[/quote]

How does it interact with molecules?[/quote]

ask him when he reads your life[/quote]

You seem to have asked him some things already, so maybe you could put in a good word for us and ask him right now. [/quote]
im not a prothet, ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793151.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793151.page GMT
they must hate you too[/quote]

No, we're

[img]http://collider.com/wp-content/uploads/friends-tv-show.jpg[/img]]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793152.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793152.page GMT
they must hate you too[/quote]

No, we're

[img]http://collider.com/wp-content/uploads/friends-tv-show.jpg[/img][/quote]
hmm]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793154.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793154.page GMT the Lords power[/quote]

How does it interact with molecules?[/quote]

ask him when he reads your life[/quote]

You seem to have asked him some things already, so maybe you could put in a good word for us and ask him right now. [/quote]
im not a prothet, [/quote]

Then maybe you should stop speaking for God.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793155.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793155.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793162.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793162.page GMT
You are acting as if you personally know what God thinks, does, says, and knows.

Sounds like you are pretending to be a prophet to me.

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793199.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793199.page GMT
You are acting as if you personally know what God thinks, does, says, and knows.

Sounds like you are pretending to be a prophet to me.

[/quote]
no im not, youre just misunderstanding my point]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793204.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793204.page GMT
You are acting as if you personally know what God thinks, does, says, and knows.

Sounds like you are pretending to be a prophet to me.

[/quote]
no im not, youre just misunderstanding my point[/quote]

Could you please elaborate then? I would like to be able to understand your point.

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793230.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793230.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793232.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793232.page GMT
Sentence fragments don't translate well into any language, though your lack of grammar seems to transcend all language barriers. So I ask again:

Could you please elaborate then? I would like to be able to understand your point.

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793241.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793241.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793244.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793244.page GMT actual language,
Hrvatski]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793245.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793245.page GMT i only knew the first word...
edit: hmm my knowledge in this language is starting to fail]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793246.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793246.page GMT actual language,
Hrvatski[/quote]

Nema ni malo veze koj jezik koristis ako neznas sta su pune recenice.

Taco burrito enchilada carne asada, Slyth!

So will you actually give me an answer, terrapod?]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793250.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793250.page GMT sorry blackbird
Good night!]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793252.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793252.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793256.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793256.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793259.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793259.page GMT
they must hate you too[/quote]

No, we're

[img]http://collider.com/wp-content/uploads/friends-tv-show.jpg[/img][/quote]
hmm[/quote]

That's actually a really nice picture. I like that show.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793451.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3793451.page GMT
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3794808.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3794808.page GMT
Admittedly I've always found the disbelief in evolution to be confusing, mostly because where I'm from people just don't do that. I know people who come from all kinds of religious backgrounds (lots of Christians and Buddhists, and also some Jews and Muslims) but I'm yet to hear someone challenge the theory of evolution. The only times I've known that to happen is on the internet! Those I know in person may have their beliefs, but they don't necessarily assume that evolution contradicts whatever beliefs they have. They just accept it the same way they accept gravity.

However, if the South Koreans' problem with evolution is primarily religion-based, then isn't that all the more reason to teach it? Even if they move it from science class to Religious Education? Otherwise, removing it from the curriculum seems disrespectful to those who do believe it, especially if they are continuing to teach subjects based on other religions.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3797169.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3797169.page GMT
Government has stepped in to restore sanity.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3818043.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3818043.page GMT YES

*Reads article*
YESYESYES!]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3818488.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/78050/3818488.page GMT