This is the general guide you will want to follow:

If you want to completely remove SecuROM after uninstalling this game, including the 'SecuROM User Access' Service it installs in Windows, follow these steps:

1. Uninstall the game as normal.
2. Manually delete the game directory (typically \Program Files\Atari\Crashday-demo\
3. Go to Start>Run and type "Services.msc" (without quotes) and press Enter.
4. Go to the 'Securom User Access' Service, double click on it, click Stop and then set it to Disabled.
5. Go to \Windows\System32\ directory and delete the UAService7.exe file.
6. Go to Start>Run and type "sc delete useraccess7" (without quotes) and press Enter.

Note: This Service may be recreated by one of your other SecuROM games, in which case you will have to keep it running to play them.

The following steps are very risky and only for people who are certain none of their currently installed games use or need SecuROM:

7. Go to \Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\ and delete the SecuROM sub-directory.
8. Go to Start>Run and type "Regedit" (without quotes) and press Enter. Then find the [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\SecuROM] key and delete it if possible.

--

If you have taken every step except the last and the directory is not able to be deleted, it's simply a ghost entry and while that's annoying, it won't do anything to your computer from there. You may need a third-party registry cleaner (such as RegCleaner) to remove the dead entry.

EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Twobit — GMT

see the problem is i dont have access to the securom file in the regrestry, so i cant delete it.

hence the only way to get rid of it is a hard drive wipe.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

theultimateend — GMT

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

pcguy89 — GMT

[quote=hawkian]This is the general guide you will want to follow:

If you want to completely remove SecuROM after uninstalling this game, including the 'SecuROM User Access' Service it installs in Windows, follow these steps:

1. Uninstall the game as normal.
2. Manually delete the game directory (typically \Program Files\Atari\Crashday-demo\
3. Go to Start>Run and type "Services.msc" (without quotes) and press Enter.
4. Go to the 'Securom User Access' Service, double click on it, click Stop and then set it to Disabled.
5. Go to \Windows\System32\ directory and delete the UAService7.exe file.
6. Go to Start>Run and type "sc delete useraccess7" (without quotes) and press Enter.

Note: This Service may be recreated by one of your other SecuROM games, in which case you will have to keep it running to play them.

The following steps are very risky and only for people who are certain none of their currently installed games use or need SecuROM:

7. Go to \Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\ and delete the SecuROM sub-directory.
8. Go to Start>Run and type "Regedit" (without quotes) and press Enter. Then find the [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\SecuROM] key and delete it if possible.

--

If you have taken every step except the last and the directory is not able to be deleted, it's simply a ghost entry and while that's annoying, it won't do anything to your computer from there. You may need a third-party registry cleaner (such as RegCleaner) to remove the dead entry.[/quote]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. How is the average consumer going to know how (or even have the time or patience) to do this?

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Hawkian — GMT

I'm not sure what you mean by SecuROM "file" in the registry. The registry stores settings and options that are inserted into the appropriate files that access them.

In any event, it seems there is a Microsoft app that you can use to remove them, though as stated, if you have taken all the other steps, the registry entries will just be annoying reminders of a long-gone DRM service.

"The Securom registry entries are deliberately made non-removable by default. In order to remove them download the hhttp://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/Miscellaneous/RegDelNull.mspx RegDelNull registry editing utility from Microsoft and install it on your C partition.
Run the following two commands from a Windows command prompt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_line_interface : "C:\regdelnull HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\SecuROM -s" and "C:\regdelnull HKEY_USERS\\Software\SecuROM -s" where "" can be determined by searching the registry for the "Securom" directory key. This "" typically has a form like "S-1-5-21-2052111302-1757341266-724545543-500". Once these two RegDelNull commands have been successfully issued the registry should be checked to confirm that these two keys have been deleted. If they are still present they will now be removeable due to the action of the RegDelNull utility. "

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

theultimateend — GMT

[quote=pcguy89][quote=hawkian]This is the general guide you will want to follow:

If you want to completely remove SecuROM after uninstalling this game, including the 'SecuROM User Access' Service it installs in Windows, follow these steps:

1. Uninstall the game as normal.
2. Manually delete the game directory (typically \Program Files\Atari\Crashday-demo\
3. Go to Start>Run and type "Services.msc" (without quotes) and press Enter.
4. Go to the 'Securom User Access' Service, double click on it, click Stop and then set it to Disabled.
5. Go to \Windows\System32\ directory and delete the UAService7.exe file.
6. Go to Start>Run and type "sc delete useraccess7" (without quotes) and press Enter.

Note: This Service may be recreated by one of your other SecuROM games, in which case you will have to keep it running to play them.

The following steps are very risky and only for people who are certain none of their currently installed games use or need SecuROM:

7. Go to \Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\ and delete the SecuROM sub-directory.
8. Go to Start>Run and type "Regedit" (without quotes) and press Enter. Then find the [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\SecuROM] key and delete it if possible.

--

If you have taken every step except the last and the directory is not able to be deleted, it's simply a ghost entry and while that's annoying, it won't do anything to your computer from there. You may need a third-party registry cleaner (such as RegCleaner) to remove the dead entry.[/quote]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. How is the average consumer going to know how (or even have the time or patience) to do this?[/quote]

You aren't that's the idea behind keeping dormant files to be activated at a later time...you know...how virus's work .

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Hawkian — GMT

[quote]Whoa, whoa, whoa. How is the average consumer going to know how (or even have the time or patience) to do this?[/quote]

Whoa whoa whoa. When did I suggest that the average consumer would? Or should? I SPORE [i]loathe[/i] DRM. However, stating that the average consumer wouldn't be able to do that without looking it up is NOT the same as stating that "there is no way to remove it without wiping your hard drive."

It's hyperbole. It's reactionary at best and unnecessarily so.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Michlo — GMT

What a load of bollocks.

Whilst I'm not exactly thrilled to have this software, no Company is going to risk the potential damages that would befall them by using something that will "completely wipe the hard drive" and all the other nonsense people are spouting about the program.

No, the sky isn't falling.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Twobit — GMT

[quote=michlo]What a load of bollocks.

Whilst I'm not exactly thrilled to have this software, no Company is going to risk the potential damages that would befall them by using something that will "completely wipe the hard drive" and all the other nonsense people are spouting about the program.

No, the sky isn't falling.

[/quote]

i think we totaly beat that horse all ready

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

tyger42 — GMT

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

TokeyMcBongRip — GMT

[quote=Pugnap00]i bet even if they put it on the box people would still install it, or they would see it and say "oh, i have no clue what that is oh well i want spore"

EA even made an announcement that they would include this with their software, and people still installed it.[/quote]

yes but not all people follow games like a cult, just because they announced over the net that the game would include said DRM, does not ensure that everyone who purchased spore was aware of the DRM and the heavy price of having it bundled with their game, while installing the game it never mentioned once that it was installing the DRM nor did it mention that you have a limit of 3 installs, all though i was drunk when i installed it, but im positive that it didnt mention it was installing the DRM! i am also looking at my galactic edition box and it is not labeled anywhere that it has this DRM included, or anywhere on the box indicating that im only allowed 3 installs after which i will have to kiss EAs feet to be able to install it after those 3 (no more doing what i used to do with the sims all these years, uninstalling it to free up space when im bored with it and reinstalling it when i feel like playing it again)

its those lack of labeling mixed with spores creature creator with the big letters SPORE STARTER KIT!<-the exclamation point is not added by me if you own the creature creator pick up the case and look for your self, they wanted us to believe this was a necessary purchase in order to play spore when it was released! because in reality who pays 10 bucks for demos esp demos that dont show any gameplay what so ever...this was false advertisement in my book, starter kit implies that its needed in order to play the game when infact if you read the book in the spore creature creator case it states that you will need to completely remove the creature creator in order to install spore! now im not too sure about this but if this was written in big letters with an exclamation point at the end on the front of the case im sure you would have seen more people using the free creature creator demo from the site instead of paying 10 dollars for what is now a useless piece of software mixed in with all my old software!

its about time someone tries to show EA that were not gonna be bullied by false advertisement and lack of effort to alert the people buying their games that we are only allowed 3 installs after which we must beg to be allowed to play a game that we rightfully own and payed for!

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

chilipep — GMT

[quote]HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\SecuROM -s" and "C:\regdelnull[/quote]

LOL , I would but " registry editing has been disabled by your administrator "

whoa whoa whoa

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

MrRogersHasAGun — GMT

Is EA being sued or suing?

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

chilipep — GMT

http://www.courthousenews.com/2008/09/23/Spore.pdf

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Twobit — GMT

[quote=mrrogershasagun]Is EA being sued or suing?[/quote]

being suied

there taking it up the butt.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

AileenaSnow — GMT

This would be interesting news, if it weren't for the fact that we live in a country where you can "Go to court" over spilling hot coffee on yourself in a Drive-Thru or by snapping yourself in the eye with your underpants. (Both very real). Doesn't mean it will WIN. The worst thing it does is create negative press which makes people think twice about using products so it hurts the company usually in a more PR respect than a legal respect.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Voligne — GMT

http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/5054.page

The actual PDF court documents are in the thread here. First post.

DRM does not wipe your harddrive.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

gstommylee — GMT

I think the reason why they are suing cause there is now way for the consumer to know that its including the stuff when they buy the game. The problem with the EULA you don't see it when you purchase the game.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Ilseroth — GMT

Well... I have to say.. this makes me feel sad for EA... I hate EA for their untested patches, forcing devs to release products early and their choice to produce alot of derivitive games and games with an excess of advertisements...

But I totally understand DRM... You can only install on 3 (or 5) systems? What a travesty, you cant pass the disc off to all of your friends... or more likely, put it online for free download... This is the only way PC gaming can exsist and keep going, consoles have a disc, much harder to fake, but on a cmputer it is *very* easy to fake a non-mmo. I met several people who have proudly stated they havent paid for a computer games in years... I understand people dont wanna be treated like criminals but seriously...

Thats like walking into Gamestop and saying "How dare you put a sensor on the game that needs to be switched off before I buy the game, who the hell do you think I am, I am not a thief." There are plenty of thieves... A few precautionary measures are understandable... I understand if it was only for one install on one computer with no chance of reinstalls people getting pissed off... but you got 5 installs that only trigger if you change your comp or are on different computers...

PC games are bieng ripped off at ludicrous levels... When I was living in dorms at college someone ripped off a game online, put it on a disc and passed it out through the entire floor then had a lan party... This is just one example... I mean jesus if I ripped off pretty much any other type of store ohe then a music store (another things that is ripped off way too much) and blatantly said it, most people would recoil and say "Whats wrong witbh you/"

I understand this is not the best way to do things... but until a better method of copy protection is formed this will do... I dont see what the big deal is... I mean alot of people are in a huff over it... but I have yet to hear a valid arguement... I dont like limited installs either buy is there any reason people are pissed that isnt just that they cant lend it to their friends... jesus.. theres plenty of valid reason to dislike spore like its lack of depth....

The drm isnt reallty a big deal...

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

CommanderT — GMT

Whoa, whoa, whoa. How is the average consumer going to know how (or even have the time or patience) to do this?[/quote]

the average user isnt going to know or care what securom is in the first place, because believe it or not its not new and it barely causes many issues at all

@ the guy who quoted the text from the agreement, yeah thats what im talking about. it tells you what its going to do and that you have set limit to installs but not in specifics. so if you read that and clicked accept anyway its your own fault that you didnt bother to go find out what its actually going to install on your computer

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

AntonioJimenez — GMT

http://www.courthousenews.com/2008/09/23/Spore.pdf

At no point did the case pdf say that the DRM wipes out you hard drive. courthousenews got the quote wrong so read the actual case file pdf before commenting.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

TokeyMcBongRip — GMT

[quote=commandertWhoa, whoa, whoa. How is the average consumer going to know how (or even have the time or patience) to do this?[/quote]

[quote=]the average user isnt going to know or care what securom is in the first place, because believe it or not its not new and it barely causes many issues at all

@ the guy who quoted the text from the agreement, yeah thats what im talking about. it tells you what its going to do and that you have set limit to installs but not in specifics. so if you read that and clicked accept anyway its your own fault that you didnt bother to go find out what its actually going to install on your computer[/quote]

this is not the issue the issue is that when you go to the store to buy the game does the store clerk hand you a copy of that paticular games EULA and force you to read it word for word out loud to prove you understand it and force you to sign it before purchasing the game? once the game hands you the EULA its too late you opened the game placed the disk in your computer and it is now in most cases impossible to return for a full refund!

edit i dont know what happend it cut the second quoters name out????

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

chilipep — GMT

The real issue :
from page 3 of 36

" Electronic Arts' intentionally did not disclose to any such purchasers that the spore game disk also possesed a second, hidden program which secretly installed to the command and control center of the computer (Ring 0, or the Kernel ), and surreptitiously operated, overseeing function and operation on the computer, preventing the computer from operating under certain circumstances and/or disrupting hardware operations. "

Also, from page 6 of 36 # 12.

" The operating system of a computer utilizes different parts or levels of the computer, determined by the need of the software for access and control over different aspects of the hardware or software. These aspects are commonly called Ring 0,1,2 and 3. Ring 0 is sometimes reffered to as the Kernel. The Kernel is usually used by the Operating System to run the computer and it has access to everything on the computer. Ring 3, which is the normal zone used by software has much lower permissions. SecuROM represents that it installs itself to Ring 3( by having a part of itself called the UA7service.exe written to Ring 3), when in fact it installs it's primarily operational code to Ring 0. "

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

CommanderT — GMT

why the big outrage now? i mean its been around for years in other games not just eas games. whats special now that everyones worked up

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

TokeyMcBongRip — GMT

[quote=commandert]why the big outrage now? i mean its been around for years in other games not just eas games. whats special now that everyones worked up[/quote]

because they stepped over the line by limiting the number of installs the game allows and not stating that on the cover of the case, by the time you know you only have 3 installs its too late to return the game!

in fact i would much prefer the phoning home every 10 or so days instead of limiting my number of installs just so they can tell me no go buy the game again, its another way to make profit forcefully buy games again, think back early appliances my parents had fridges that lasted 25 years, a color tv thats older than i am that still works a microwave that is also older than me and runs as good as a modern one, older appliances were made better and didnt fail as often, but companies soon realized if the product never failed then they were out of business because eventually the market is tapped and there is no more need for your product so now things are made cheaper so that they fail more often, the average lifespan of a hot water heater is less than 8 years same goes for most fridges microwaves and other appliances

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

PunchesDelGado — GMT

Funny how all the DRM has accomplished for Spore is a lot of bad publicity, it certainly doesn't seem to have made a lick of difference as far as pirating was concerned. At the same time other companies who have adopted the GBR and refuse to use DRM remain largely unpirated and, in fact, people who [i]do[/i] pirate their software are berated within their respective communities for doing so. A little customer-satisfaction oriented business practice would seem to go a lot farther towards preventing piracy, people respond to it and it wins support, unfortunately the bean counters in these larger corporations are simply incapable of understanding this simple fact, but maybe after the recent bruises they took over the use of DRM something will change, and treating their paying customers with a little decency and respect will start to factor into their cost-benefit analysis.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

tyger42 — GMT

[quote=mysporepage]I will not be removed for something I was told to do and in my position.[/quote]

So, you were told to tell people they'd be banned for mentioning DRM? I somehow doubt that. And this little childishness here doesn't lend credibility to you.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Twobit — GMT

[quote=tokeymcbongrip][quote=commandert]why the big outrage now? i mean its been around for years in other games not just eas games. whats special now that everyones worked up[/quote]

because they stepped over the line by limiting the number of installs the game allows and not stating that on the cover of the case, by the time you know you only have 3 installs its too late to return the game![/quote]

pritty much, it would have been fine had they had the cd key, or had they had the cd key and the on line activation.

but then people started getting pis--- when they where being treated like crimanials.

and theres only so much pushing you can take.

EA to Federal Court over DRM!

igbee — GMT

Personally, I hope EA takes it in the shorts on this one. I am so sick of the unfinished products that come to the market from EA.

Even if EA wins, gets tossed from court etc the PR damage has been done.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

abachler — GMT

[quote=matterialize][quote]"completely wipes their hard drive"[/quote]

I think they're exaggerating their claim a bit.[/quote]

This is standard legal practice, it forces EA into makign full disclosure in their best interest, as any hidden info could be logically construed as the place where the hard drive wiping boogey man is hiding.

Honestly, if I buy a car that has no engine, the dealer HAS to take it back, aso why are games any different? Buy a buggy piece fo software and they refuse to refund your money, or if they do they make YOU pay the shipping charges. This is a protection that NO other manufacturer of defective products enjoys.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

JPFrostfox — GMT

First off: I like spore. Yes, there are issues, yes room for improvement, yes it's not what I was led to believe it was. Still, I find myself enjoying the act of creating and sharing, and the gameplay isn't so bad that it drives me away. I don't play it for hours and hours on end if I might have had the game play been a bit more palatable - but it's still entertaining after the patch (which luckily worked great for me).

That said...

I have little pity in this regard. I am happy to see the DRM challenged, and I will be even more overjoyed to see this DRM eradicated - as it means I will be able to purchase titles without being harassed when I upgrade hardware or reinstall an OS, spied on and having my machines security tampered with (and there is no doubt whatsoever that SecuROM compromises that).

I am also knowledgeable enough to remove a root-kit from my machine, or say a Vundo virus which I remove from client systems many times a year because they don't... just because [i]I[/i] know how to remove it doesn't make it any less threatening or save it from being classified as virus/malware. The same holds true of SecuROM as far as I'm concerned... it alters ring access (security), degrades system performance, creates malformed registry entries that are not removed when you uninstall the applications.

I've had firsthand experience with it, upon installation, immediately result in such an unstable environment that the operating system shell crashed 20 times an hour. Until I was able to backtrack the issue to faulty shell extensions meant to prevent certain file operations that was... you guessed it, a sole result of SecuROM installation.

I don't understand why the big-wigs are unable to see this as an opportunity. I mean it's no secret that EA has about the worst PR in the market right now... everywhere I go to read about gaming it is anti-EA, devil EA, EA is the bane of gaming, etc. If they were the first large scale publisher to adopt a system similar to the much lauded Stardock - I can only see this as possibly being the biggest public relations boost imaginable. It would certainly change my tune.

Instead, they keep lashing their customers with a barbed whip and chaining them to (as it is so often put) draconian digital restrictions in the hope they'll make money. It's like trying to motivate your consumers into buying your goods by killing them when they visit the competition! You don't make your product even more inconvenient and unappealing - that's just blind stupidity.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Twobit — GMT

[quote=abachler][quote=matterialize][quote]"completely wipes their hard drive"[/quote]

I think they're exaggerating their claim a bit.[/quote]

This is standard legal practice, it forces EA into makign full disclosure in their best interest, as any hidden info could be logically construed as the place where the hard drive wiping boogey man is hiding.[/quote]

thats not what the complaint says, it says that you can not compleatly remove securom.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

PunchesDelGado — GMT

[quote=commandert]why the big outrage now? i mean its been around for years in other games not just eas games. whats special now that everyones worked up[/quote]

Controversy over DRM really kicked up when, I believe it was Sony (but may be mistaken), used a DRM on a audio disc that installed a rootkit on a computer which damaged the PC and caused it to no longer be able to play compact discs.

Since this happened the use of DRM in audio discs has become a non-practice. Even music which is sold digitally, itunes and the like, have begun offering the option of purchasing the music DRM-free.

The gaming industry seems to be taking the opposite path. While controversy has caused other industries to steer father and father away from the use of DRM, more and more gaming companies have been adopting it. This is most likely because none of these companies have been severely effected financially by their decision to use DRM despite the controversy, and the fact that it seems to have no effect on preventing piracy would appear to be completely lost on them.

At heart, the controversy surrounding the use of DRM across all industries is not solely because of an install limit which it may impose (although I will remind you EA is under absolutely [i]no obligation[/i] to grant a request for another install of the game you purchased, or even for that matter to maintain the service which gives you the avenue to request more installs). The controversy stems mainly from the fact that DRM is software that is installed on the user's computer, in many cases without their knowledge or express consent, and it is never made clear exactly what this software will do to the machine or what other purposes it may serve then a simple install limit. If companies were more forthcoming about all aspects of the DRM they were forcing into people's computers it may not be such a huge issue, for not all of them are harmful. The fact remains that they aren't, and that historically DRMs have been known to install harmful rootkits onto user's computers without the user's knowledge and operate much in the same way a trojan does. It is nothing short of a shady business practice which is hurtfull to paying customers, and that coupled with the fact that it [i]doesn't even serve it's stated purpose of effectively preventing piracy[/i] is what causes so many consumers to be angered and outraged by it's continued use.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Hawkian — GMT

[quote=antoniojimenez]http://www.courthousenews.com/2008/09/23/Spore.pdf

At no point did the case pdf say that the DRM wipes out you hard drive. courthousenews got the quote wrong so read the actual case file pdf before commenting.[/quote]

This is the bit of the case in question:
[img]http://www.inchaos.net/eacase.jpg[/img]
It's not true. It may be a pain in the SPORE (oops... really thought that would be censored), but it is removable, and it will not cause you to have any reason to format your drive, at all.

The jibber-jabber about "Kernel 0" and "being embedded in the operating system" is a bit much. Basically it's a convoluted way of saying it installs a Windows Service. Snore.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

CommanderT — GMT

if you ask me most people didnt care about this program until the install limit was mentioned

btw is it confirmed that you can install as many times on 1 computer and the limit is just on different machines or if your computer has a hardware change?

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Twobit — GMT

[quote=hawkian][quote=antoniojimenez]http://www.courthousenews.com/2008/09/23/Spore.pdf

At no point did the case pdf say that the DRM wipes out you hard drive. courthousenews got the quote wrong so read the actual case file pdf before commenting.[/quote]
...
It's not true. It may be a pain in the SPORE (oops... really thought that would be censored), but it is removable, and it will not cause you to have any reason to format your drive, at all.

The jibber-jabber about "Kernel 0" and "being embedded in the operating system" is a bit much. Basically it's a convoluted way of saying it installs a Windows Service. Snore.[/quote]

securom stays on your computer, its not used, but it stays behind.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Hawkian — GMT

You can remove it all, down to the registry entires.

You need a microsoft (free) app to do it, since they're defaulted to "non-removable."

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

TokeyMcBongRip — GMT

[quote=commandert]if you ask me most people didnt care about this program until the install limit was mentioned

btw is it confirmed that you can install as many times on 1 computer and the limit is just on different machines or if your computer has a hardware change?[/quote]

this hurts people like me who uninstall games when they dont play them enough to take up harddrive space, i have uninstalled this sims series atleast 25 times over the years and reinstalled it when i felt like playing it, with the limit my hard drive is burdened with having to carry this game until i feel another install is worth it! this fear that i will be told "and you thought we would give you another install my friend(in a heavy indian accent due to the fact someone in india will be answering my customer service call while their children are sewing soccer balls for walmart!)"

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

chilipep — GMT

[quote]It's not true. It may be a pain in the SPORE (oops... really thought that would be censored), but it is removable, and it will not cause you to have any reason to format your drive, at all.

The jibber-jabber about "Kernel 0" and "being embedded in the operating system" is a bit much. Basically it's a convoluted way of saying it installs a Windows Service. Snore. [/quote]

Your arrogance borders on douchebaggery.

Maybe EA will hire you to represent them.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

AntonioJimenez — GMT

[quote=twobit]

securom stays on your computer, its not used, but it stays behind.[/quote]

For some reason a picture of a landmine popped into my head after reading that =)

JPFrostfox — GMT

Just to note:

I've also submitted a suggestion to create a unified thread on DRM. The discussion does need to be allowed, but people can't resist the impulse to start their own threads because they feel it will be better seen.

My suggestion goes on to say that DRM topics should be locked, but with specific redirection to the open (and possibly stickied) unified thread.

It's an important topic, but I definitely do not wish to see the forum flooded with it.. and organized discussion is preferable over chaos.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

rupertlittlebear — GMT

EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Jackuul — GMT

Or a DRM forum - that way they would all be in one place.

EA to Federal Court over DRM!

knypha — GMT

OK So I should have found this thread before posting a new one earlier...

[url]http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/0/5216.page#48207[/url]

Sorry...

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

renlar — GMT

I am tempted to uninstall spore and follow hawkian's advice to get rid of the securom completely and then just get the pirated version that is apparently drm & virus free. I have not done this yet, due to the fact that i am not computer savvy enough to be sure im not breaking my computer in doing so.

In the interest of keeping the sporum free from duplicate posts, lets keep this thread alive. I am really curious as to the resolution of the lawsuit.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

TormakSaber — GMT

[quote=renlar]I am tempted to uninstall spore and follow hawkian's advice to get rid of the securom completely and then just get the pirated version that is apparently drm & virus free. I have not done this yet, due to the fact that i am not computer savvy enough to be sure im not breaking my computer in doing so.

In the interest of keeping the sporum free from duplicate posts, lets keep this thread alive. I am really curious as to the resolution of the lawsuit.[/quote]

the downside to doing this is that you'll no longer be able to have buddies on your buddy list, or subscribe to sporecatss, or do anything that requires online accessibility, including share your creatures.

This is the reason I chose to buy the game, over maintaining my pirated copy.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

renlar — GMT

[quote=TormakSaber] the downside to doing this is that you'll no longer be able to have buddies on your buddy list, or subscribe to sporecatss, or do anything that requires online accessibility, including share your creatures.

This is the reason I chose to buy the game, over maintaining my pirated copy.[/quote]

>,< that is awful. Heres hoping EA is forced to change their policy.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

tyger42 — GMT

[quote=renlar]>,< that is awful. Heres hoping EA is forced to change their policy.[/quote]

You can't use EA online services with the pirated copy?!?! Say it ain't so!

If your sarcasm detector's broken, there's a LOT of it in this sector...

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

renlar — GMT

Your sarcasm is not helpful...

The point is that something as ineffectual and harmful as securom should not be mandatory. And it is NOT true that you cant upload creatures. You can still upload the ping file from your documents folder to the net.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

SporeMasterKaliena — GMT

Hello Everyone,

As a reminder, this forum does have Forum Guidelines. Please review the Guidelines here:
http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/4.page

Please avoid personal attacks, insults, cussing etc. Spirited debate is fine as long as it is civil.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled programing...

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

CommanderT — GMT

[quote=jpfrostfox]Just to note:

I've also submitted a suggestion to create a unified thread on DRM. The discussion does need to be allowed, but people can't resist the impulse to start their own threads because they feel it will be better seen.

My suggestion goes on to say that DRM topics should be locked, but with specific redirection to the open (and possibly stickied) unified thread.

It's an important topic, but I definitely do not wish to see the forum flooded with it.. and organized discussion is preferable over chaos.

[/quote]

yeah we did this over at the c&c forums, it doesn't work people still spam their own daily and cry whenever me or another mod locks and redirects them.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Wakeman — GMT

When will EA realize its problem?

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

LailaK — GMT

[quote=matterialize][quote]"completely wipes their hard drive"[/quote]

I think they're exaggerating their claim a bit.[/quote]

That's odd, I read the court document they're hosting and it does not state that. It states that completely wiping the drive is the only assured method for removing SecuROM entirely from the system.

I think their synopsis simply mucked up. The actual claim seems more tangible.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Ruyoayo — GMT

[quote=tokeymcbongrip][quote=commandert]if you ask me most people didnt care about this program until the install limit was mentioned

btw is it confirmed that you can install as many times on 1 computer and the limit is just on different machines or if your computer has a hardware change?[/quote]

this hurts people like me who uninstall games when they dont play them enough to take up harddrive space, i have uninstalled this sims series atleast 25 times over the years and reinstalled it when i felt like playing it, with the limit my hard drive is burdened with having to carry this game until i feel another install is worth it! this fear that i will be told "and you thought we would give you another install my friend(in a heavy indian accent due to the fact someone in india will be answering my customer service call while their children are sewing soccer balls for walmart!)"[/quote]It doesn't hurt you, you can install Spore or any DRM game as many times as you need to as long as it's on the same machine.
The only exceptions are if you do any upgrades that cause you to change/reinstall your OS.

I read about it in a thread on the Red Alert 3 forum pertaining to their DRM, a couple RA3 developers/representatives were in there talking about it. While the number of installs it different, I'm pretty sure the rest of the stuff is the same.

At least I hope it works that way, I'm on my third install over stupid graphical glitches that weren't even caused by faulty software...

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Roboraptor — GMT

Wow! I never thought my thread would be this popular.

Cheers,
Roboraptor

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

StarWarrior — GMT

I can see there's quite a bit of confusion here over the SecuROM DRM.

[b]Everything you should know about SecuROM and what it does is here:[/b]
http://www.the-prism.com/index.php

[b]Easy guide to removing SecuROM from your PC - (Only do this if you've completely finished with Spore)[/b]
http://reclaimyourgame.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=68&Itemid=40

The main concerns users seem to have is the activations limit, apart from the complete hassle it causes, it can also render your game worthless in the second-hand game market. I see "Amazon" are already selling second-hand DRM infested games, if those games have reached their activation limit, or were refused additional activations, you can bet something big will be hitting the fan about that eventually! So, after purchasing your 'bargain' second-hand DRM game from Amazon, you'll either have a game which will not work at all, or will be required to pay 'again' and buy an extra licence from those nice chaps at EA.

Activations aside, SecuROM is an invasive infestation which can't be uninstalled by normal means at this time. Infact, it overrides administration rights to your computer so it can't be removed by using normal right click methods, it also interferes with programs running under windows to prevent detection, cloaks itself using hidden files, overrides your firewall which creates a huge security hole. SecuROM runs quietly in the background, monitoring your activities even after the software 'it came bundled with' is completely uninstalled from your PC.

Then there's the CD/DVD burner issue. Yes folks, SecuROM loves to disable your hardware drivers and burner software.

Another Malware Trojan, anyone?

I think this class action lawsuit is the tip of the iceberg, there are grounds for countless more against EA and Sony BMG's SecuROM in the future. And don't forget, Sony has already been found guilty for placing this Spyware on music CDs.
Wiki Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Sony_BMG_CD_copy_protection_scandal

Personally, I now boycott anything using this infestation.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Poetry — GMT

[quote=hawkian]They are.

In fact, understanding the issues at play fairly well, I believe the lawsuit will either be dismissed as frivolous or settled vaguely amid EA's ever-relaxing-under-incredible-community-response standards.

But hey, maybe they'll take them for a ride and walk away with millions.

EDIT: In case anyone is concerned, the claim that SecuROM "cannot be uninstalled" is [b]simply not true[/b]. You need to have it installed to play Spore, as well as Bioshock and an annoying host of other major releases (Mass Effect?) It [b]can, however, be removed fairly simply[/b] upon uninstalling all associated programs.[/quote]

That will not hold up in a civil court.

You needed to be informed ahead of time it was installing onto your system. Then how to instructions needed to be sent to you about how part of their product is uninstalled within the documents if that is not the case. Online notification via account e-mail would not do in this case as people who have already left the community would be the ones most inclined to remove it and that e-mail cannot be considered valid. It has to be Explicit not assumed. This is the 'warning hot' cup of coffee country, remember.

Plain Letter Laws regarding warnings will catch here more than anything. EA is not fly by night. FTC will be able to pin them down using item presented in this case later. So EA needs to tread carefully. While it states Spore, any changes not made to packages of unreleased software, that comes out after 20 days (or 10 business days whichever sooner)from notice was served goes towards intent. You do not have to make a new package, but a sticker posted on every single box until this is resolved... ouchies.

Frivolous? Dunno, class actions are often looked at with a cautious eye in CA. A personal suit is more likely to be dismissed. With DRM being part of FTC settlements in the past with other media, I'd say parts of the case are solid with merits. If nothing else, other people in other states can file their own, with better re-wording.

edit for a clarification.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Poetry — GMT

[quote=antoniojimenez][quote=hawkian]You can remove it all, down to the registry entires.

You need a microsoft (free) app to do it, since they're defaulted to "non-removable."[/quote]

The point is hawkian is that you EA should provide a way to remove it from your pc. You shouldn't need to search for a program that will remove it for you. Not everyone who will play spore will know how to find and operate the program.
[/quote]

You are both correct. The point Hawkin has, that will lessen damages on top of product cost. Often in cases like this product cost is the recoup. Damages tend to be mostly legal fees. The refund with a CD/DVD that purges SecurRom from your system might very well be in folks future.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

farwalker — GMT

http://www.gametreeonline.com/SporeEULA.pdf

The EULA is not clear and specific as to what it actually is limiting. Vague and confusing language can not be considered legally enforceable in a court of law. This is classic boilerplate.

Without full disclosure there can be no agreement; and therefore, no contract.

"[b]Technical Protection Measures[/b]. Our Software uses access
control and copy protection technology. An internet connection
is required to authenticate the Software and verify your license.
If you are not connected to the Internet, you will not be able to
use the Software until you reestablish an internet connection
and verify the license. The first end user of this License can
install and authenticate the Software on a set number of
machines which may vary by product." [in part]

Specifically, there is no language which specifically states that the number of installs is limited to three (3).
Further, it does not disclose the extent to which the software installs verification programs on your computer.

I searched the document the word three is not there.

I am not raising the issue of whether EA has the right to limit what it sells as a limited license; but the issue of lack of disclosure and lack of agreement.

Without full disclosure on the packaging there can be no credible claim of a contract binding the purchaser of a limited license that is up to the whim of the seller.

EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Ytram — GMT

[quote=jpfrostfox]... While I very much disagree with Hawkian's position, he is allowed to have one ...[/quote]

Hawkian is telling the truth, so you disagree with the truth? He's obviously a very technical guy, and has already provided the necessary steps to removing SecuROM, which [i]completely[/i] refutes the hyperbole in the lawsuit that it cannot be removed without "wiping your hard drive".

He's also obviously not a EA cheerleader or DRM funguy, so you people acting like he is should quit being dense. He's not defending EA, or saying that all parts of the lawsuit do not have merit, he's just pointing out one piece of inaccurate information and correcting it.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Cysgodi — GMT

Am I the only one that understand that there are tons of programs that are installed daily in this world and than are uninstalled daily and they leave files behind? Files that the average computer user knows nothing about that does not harm their computer?

This just seems like a huge "THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING" to me.

EA to Federal Court over DRM!

MatticusUK — GMT

[quote=ytram]

Hawkian is telling the truth, so you disagree with the truth? He's obviously a very technical guy, and has already provided the necessary steps to removing SecuROM, which [i]completely[/i] refutes the hyperbole in the lawsuit that it cannot be removed without "wiping your hard drive".[/quote]
Posssibly the lawsuit is indicating that it is impossible for average pc users to remove it without wiping their hardrive. unless they have the technical knowledge to get rid of it (which is a tricky process i believe)

Either way, that aspect of the allegations needs to be clarified and better researched before they bring it to the next stage for sure.

EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Cysgodi — GMT

[quote=theultimateend]Does DRM stand for Douchey Responses Mandatory?

Because anytime DRM comes up ya'll start fighting.[/quote]

They start having intense discussions because the very valid point is, NO ONE outside of SecurROM or Sony knows EXACTLY what this program does or does not do. If someone says they know for CERTAIN what it does they are either not telling the whole truth or work for SecurRom or Sony and are opening their mouth when they shouldn't.

Now that being said I very much stand behind hawkien because he has [u]shown[/u] he knows what he's talking about. Everyone else here - and sorry no disrespect intended - seem to be spouting off wild speculation which really has no basis in fact.

As I said above here, there are so many programs that leave behind registry settings and directories when they are uninstall that it's not funny. Do I like DRM? No. But neither do I like people crying wolf when the whole story is not known. Some people love to spread rumors because they like to get people riled up. Before long you have a huge uprising over something that is not entirely understood.

You are more likely to have your identity stolen while doing your online banking than you are having something happen to you because of the DRM that is contained in Spore.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Ickabod — GMT

[quote=Pugnap00][quote=matterialize][quote]"completely wipes their hard drive"[/quote]

I think they're exaggerating their claim a bit.[/quote]

yeah alot of it is exagerated. DRM doesnt wipe your hard drive[/quote]

It says that the only way to remove the DRM is to "completely wipe your hard drive." Serioulsy misquoted here.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

ausdreamer — GMT

There is a removal program for it at the official securom site

http://www.securom.com/support_faq.asp

see 36.

The document did not state what steps the person complaining took to find out how to remove it- if they contacted EA/Sony whatever- one would assume they did before filing a court case?

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

drtechno — GMT

Where can we sign up to be part of the class ?

Or have they already established class status?

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

drtechno — GMT

[quote=ausdreamer]There is a removal program for it at the official securom site

http://www.securom.com/support_faq.asp

[/quote]

?? Wow.. I am at a loss for words. Why do you think it that program removes SecureROM? Because they TOLD you it does ?? They also didn't tell you its installed in the first place so why on earth do you believe them?

This has already been covered in the Bioshock forums. The 'removal' program simply disables parts SecureROM but does not remove it. It is embedded deep within the OS and removal is nearly impossible. Go research it yourself before being a regurgitating the company line.

Cysgodi — GMT

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Pugnap00 — GMT

lets sue God next

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

theultimateend — GMT

[quote=pugnap00]lets sue God next[/quote]

Probably should.

I mean really, pooping, that's the best energy conversion and disposal method he could come up with?

For that matter the entire digestive system, he creates a perfectly balanced system to give a star its chaotic but beautiful orb shape and can't think up something better than our digestive tract?

I want to sue him over all the logic holes in the mere concept of one thing being the creator of all with such violent descrepencies between products.

[quote]Messages: 666
Online [/quote]

Wow my 666th post is me attacking god.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Pugnap00 — GMT

[quote=theultimateend][quote=pugnap00]lets sue God next[/quote]

Probably should.

I mean really, pooping, that's the best energy conversion and disposal method he could come up with?

For that matter the entire digestive system, he creates a perfectly balanced system to give a star its chaotic but beautiful orb shape and can't think up something better than our digestive tract?

I want to sue him over all the logic holes in the mere concept of one thing being the creator of all with such violent descrepencies between products.

[quote]Messages: 666
Online [/quote]

Wow my 666th post is me attacking god.

[/quote]

how freaking ironic lol!

PunchesDelGado — GMT

[quote=Poetry]Then the FTC can find such as the Sony DRM case after. [/quote]

That's what killed the use of DRM on audio discs and eventually digital music sales, but unfortunately had no effect on the use of DRM by gaming companies. Hopefully this lawsuit starts the necessary controversy for the gaming industry to curb it's use of DRM in favor of less intrusive (and possibly more effective) anti-piracy techniques.

Parvati — GMT

[quote=3rdtype][quote=parvati][quote=3rdtype]

It's cool, it's spelled Censor usually, but don't sweat it, brah, I got a new creature name anyway.
[/quote]

Ah thank you for the heads up, i'll add this to my growing list of what not to do when typing in English.[/quote]

I'm usually not a poopnose over such things anyway, but the word cencor sounds like some cool freaking monster I need to make soon.[/quote]

*rushes of to beat you to it*

TormakSaber — GMT

[quote]The idea that it cannot easily be removed is wrong. There are utilities freely downloadable to do just that (though your game won't work after unless you reinstall it with the DRM or else you use a crack)[/quote]

And this is OK? I should need to look for a utility to remove a program I never asked for and the consequences are now that I can no longer play the game I paid for without looking for a crack and praying EA doesn't see fit to ban my account for "beating the system?"

[i]That's no good![/i] as Sonic Sez.

Re:EA to Federal Court over DRM!

Roboraptor — GMT

Just a though; however, I am patient enough to wait for their next installment to be DRM free.

Cheers,
Roboraptor

Jellogum — GMT

I agree that SecuROM is a problem. I would like to be able to remove it, when I am finished with the game Spore.

It takes me between 10 and 20 hours to wipe my drive clean and to successfully restore/install all of my programs, due to several factors such as my HP application fails to install properly 70% of the time and the uninstall doesn't extract it completely, my XP OS can not be activated unless I call a Windows service rep (a call that takes nearly 2/3 hours to complete), installing certain apps will sometimes cause the system to crash (fails to boot successfully), etc.

Applications on disc are expensive. I generally try to make a copy of important applications, in case my disc gets scratched or lost. SecuROM will evidently inhibit my ability to make personal duplicates, not that I would want to duplicate Spore because I am rather disappointed with the game.

It would be nice if I could get my money back.

[Posted again due to my first post, on the topic, being removed.]

Jeremy Baker