http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/list/2.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/86363-Will-Wright-Wants-to-Expand-Spore

Spore is going to see "broader" expansions than The Sims, and Will Wright will increasingly look to players to develop game content in future titles.

Amid digital right management controversy, publisher Electronic Arts is looking into milking its latest Maxis insta-classic Spore into a virtual printing press for money.

Will Wright, the lead mind behind EA's Spore, already has plans for how he will "horizontally" add onto the game and expand its reach beyond people who purchased another Wright classic, The Sims.

Wright says, "I think with Spore we have a lot of opportunities that are broader where we can create other games around the editors, for instance, or take certain levels in the game and put them on other platforms. With Spore we'll be looking at a wider range of expansion possibilities than The Sims. A lot of these may not even be things for people who didn't buy the PC game, like downloading the creature creator."

Not content to just earn a profit from a its games, the company expects to develop future games where the user plays an increasingly crucial role in how the gameplay is developed, a trend that Wright has followed from SimCity, where players managed their own metropolis, to Spore, where the entire universe is under his or her command.

"Well, I can see things going in that direction. It would depend on a lot of advances being made. I've been keeping up with advances exactly in that area in the last 20 years. I'm pretty aware of what can be done and can't be done in that area. It would be a cool path to go down," explained Wright on the topic of user-created content. "Programming was one of those things where either you give them a complete machine and they can do a lot of stuff or you really dumb it down, in which case, all the stuff looks the same. It's something I would love to do if we could think of a good way to do it. I spent a lot of time studying people's attempts to do this, primarily people in the educational community like ... Ken Perlin, who has a project in that direction right now. But that's something that's a lot harder than it sounds."

The technical challenges, Wright says, start showing themselves when players are working in a "parametric" environment (within boundaries of the game's engine), as opposed to the more complex yet largely unexplored "algorithmic" gameplay.

"Parametric means you're changing weights and variables around an existing behavior engine. When you program the Sim's personality and then they go off and behave differently because of the way you set the personality modifiers, that's parametric. That's different of getting down to the fundamental algorithmic level where you have branching and levels," says Wright in an attempt to address the programming challenges presented in such games.

He's a man who that talks a lot gaming shop due to his aggressive approach to game design. His next ideas aren't ready to be revealed, but promise to be "pretty grandiose."

------------------------------------------------------

I will NOT be spending ANY MORE MONEY on any expansions for Spore. 2 weeks and I'm almost done with the game.

Already onto Witcher enhanced edition, Crysis warhead, and tomorrow, Sid Meier's Colonization.
This is exactly what we thought was going to happen. Could 2 weeks be the quickest mention of a game expansion in the history of gaming?? lol
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39325.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39325.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39335.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39335.page GMT
This is exactly what I was afraid of...]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39342.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39342.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39344.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39344.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39350.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39350.page GMT
They PLANNED for this type of marketing model before they even released Spore.

PATHETIC.

Get a Skeleton of a game going, Spore, then release everything that should of orginal been with the game for ALOT more money then it should.


This is going to get people stealing the game more and more.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39352.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39352.page GMT
I cant wait either, but we are being SUCKED into a marketing scheme. You cant be ignorant and ignore this fact.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39363.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39363.page GMT
Mmm hmm. Enjoy paying $250 for the 2005 Spore they originally promised.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39365.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39365.page GMT ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39374.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39374.page GMT
I will NOT be spending ANY MORE MONEY on any expansions for Spore. 2 weeks and I'm almost done with the game.

Already onto Witcher enhanced edition, Crysis warhead, and tomorrow, Sid Meier's Colonization. Now there's a developer who never let me down, SID MEIER. (well, except for Railroads, but he never preached that Railroads was going to change the gaming genre!)

This is exactly what we thought was going to happen. Could 2 weeks be the quickest mention of a game expansion in the history of gaming?? lol
[/quote]

I have seen expansions mentioned the day of release... movies do that too :/

Oh and you are missing the point of Spore, there really is no end to it, well unless you consider taking all the planets over in the Milky Way Galaxy. *blinks* I've already broken the 10 different game mark from cell to space. Maxed out 2 space games. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39383.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39383.page GMT
remember: you´re not paying for a dvd in a box... you´re paying for the 5-7 years it took 100+ ppl to develop that thing...


also... this is not anything new... he spoke of expansions even before the game was released (now THAT´s gotta be a record)]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39385.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39385.page GMT
No I much rather put my stock in the mod community (or maybe Lehman Brothers) then buy an expansion since they are much more likely to add new game play dynamics and not to mention they are free.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39388.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39388.page GMT The technical challenges, Wright says, start showing themselves when players are working in a "parametric" environment (within boundaries of the game's engine), as opposed to the more complex yet largely unexplored "algorithmic" gameplay.

"Parametric means you're changing weights and variables around an existing behavior engine. When you program the Sim's personality and then they go off and behave differently because of the way you set the personality modifiers, that's parametric. That's different of getting down to the fundamental algorithmic level where you have branching and levels," says Wright in an attempt to address the programming challenges presented in such games.
[/quote]

...this is what I've been harping about on these boards since the SPORE game came out. And, frankly, [i]it should have been in the game from the beginning![/i] If a genuine personality matrix comes out for Spore and they want to make me [i]PAY[/i] for it, they can go bobbing for apples in a septic tank; eight flavors of Not Gonna Happen™. That's not a business model I'm willing to support: screw the customer with the base product, then milk 'em for all they're worth just to make the game complete. Nuh-uh. No way, never, no how, fuggeddaboudit.

[quote]
You got me with Spore, but to think that I am actually going to buy an expansion for it? Well that's just plain stupid.
[/quote]

Exactly. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. Shame [i]all over[/i] me.

[quote]Everything WillWright is saying is all BS.

They PLANNED for this type of marketing model before they even released Spore.

PATHETIC.

Get a Skeleton of a game going, Spore, then release everything that should of orginal been with the game for ALOT more money then it should.


This is going to get people stealing the game more and more. [/quote]

Agreed; they shot themselves in the foot with this one. I predicted a few threads back that they'll see piracy go through the roof with this business model, and now I'm hearing it from other people.
Personally, I'm not even sure I can be [i]bothered[/i] to pirate an expansion; frankly, after all the hype, anticipation, disappointment, and kvetching, I'm [i]tired.[/i]
Spore, Maxis, and Will Wright can [i]bite me.[/i]]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39407.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39407.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39409.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39409.page GMT
Behavioural coding?? where is that in Spore? Ive played old DOS RTS with better AI behaviour.

People, horizontal expansions arent the kind we are asking for. I'm not sure about him anymore. Yes its nice that he has brought gaming into mainstream. Yes its nice that he has provided us with 'soft'core games that we can go 'hard'core on. But i'm afraid that he has lost his marble's.

I like Spore. But i'm feeling a little bit betrayed in the end. Don't u guys feel sold out ? W're talking a nr1 dude with brilliant ideas on how to teach us things thru gaming. That was the core idea behind Spore.
It is not today. I like Spore. But i am sad.
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39416.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39416.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39422.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39422.page GMT
Behavioural coding?? where is that in Spore? Ive played old DOS RTS with better AI behaviour.
[/quote]

Actually, that's the point; he's talking about adding it in an expansion. But, frankly, it should have been there [i]all along,[/i] and that's the issue I have with his statement.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39430.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39430.page GMT
Also, I wish people would stop saying 'Spore 2005' all the time. I don't get whats so great thats missing from the real version of Spore that was in that video, and all the talk of it gets old after a while.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39447.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39447.page GMT
Behavioural coding?? where is that in Spore? Ive played old DOS RTS with better AI behaviour.
[/quote]

Actually, that's the point; he's talking about adding it in an expansion. But, frankly, it should have been there [i]all along,[/i] and that's the issue I have with his statement.[/quote]


hehe if u read up on my posts. Its my one point of absolute critiqeu about Spore.
It was supposed to have this kind of code. It hasnt. We are on the same page mate or gal....


The deal about '05 was that it was more of an evolution simulator. Like a big tamagoshi project
It was really about trying to unite all different genres into 1 universal game.
Believe me, we had the best game ever for 3 years But since he's asking for us the community to start building games, perhaps a talented modder can code us such wonders.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39457.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39457.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39470.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39470.page GMT
THIS.

Believe it or not, they don't have a money tree orchard. If they are going to spend much more time and effort programming a game compared to normal games then they are going to charge more. In the gaming industry this just means that they release the base game first and additional features that were not cost effective to put into the first release are put into the expansion.

Just because Maxis tends to pump out a few games and expand the SPORE out of them does not make them any worse than a company that pumps out more individual games.

Development time is a precious resource and believe it or not EVERY SINGLE GAME YOU HAVE EVER PLAYED has stopped development before they could put in every feature they had ever dreamed of simply because they lacked time/money.


If you don't like Spore as a game, then you wont like it after expansions. No amount of expansion packs will make you like the game, just accept the fact that maybe Spore isn't your game rather than SPORE and moaning and trying to blame someone.


Will's statement would be out of line if the original Spore was an unfinished, buggy product. It's not. Spore is one of the most bug-free games at release I have EVER seen and it's definitely entertaining and will be entertaining for a long time for me and many other people.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39472.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39472.page GMT
For anybody that's unaware, just read about it on flagshipped.com

I guarantee you this won't bode well for the developers across the Internet. It's only a matter of time before bloggers start lambasting Maxis for a game which obviously held back on certain components to fulfill future expansion packs in an effort to penny pinch the consumers. Hell, people have just recently discovered a buried plant editor and additional cell parts.

What's next, the underwater stage already built into the game but conveniently hidden?]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39474.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39474.page GMT Also, I wish people would stop saying 'Spore 2005' all the time. I don't get whats so great thats missing from the real version of Spore that was in that video, and all the talk of it gets old after a while.[/quote]

Well...I don't think it's going away. I, too, saw a lot more potential in the 2005 vid that isn't in the final product, that I [i]want[/i] from the final product.

- Realism in both look and play; the 2005 vid looks more like a computer-generated biological environment while the 2008 game feels more like Looney Tunes meets Care Bears
- Evolution is taken seriously, design matters in gameplay as well as aesthetics
- Interaction between the UFO and the citizens of another planet seemed to be more dynamic with more possibilities
- Etc, etc.

2005 Spore seemed like a game for people who really took an interest in science, in evolution and cosmology; 2008 Spore seems more like a game for people into Pokemon and DDR. The fact remains that 2005 Spore is a game I really, really want to play, and 2008 Spore is a pale shadow of it; nearly everything that attracted me to Spore in 2005 is, well...not present in the final product.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39486.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39486.page GMT
Perhaps it has been our fault as a community that the game is what it is today.

Didnt we perhaps over emphesice the editors?
Altho the '05 seemed more sciency. Like I said.
It was a game designed to teach us. What does the Spore we have today teach us?]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39496.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39496.page GMT The Sims, Sims2 was mod friendly and we had access to programs and maxis finally gave us the info we needed to make it work. From what i've seen spore is not mod friendly. Unless they can make it that way some how.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39518.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39518.page GMT
I don't see anything wrong with the graphics style. Also remember that "2005 Spore" was PRERENDERED and shown on ubercomputers. For all we know the graphics we see today was done so that lower-end computers could play the game.

[quote] - Evolution is taken seriously, design matters in gameplay as well as aesthetics [/quote]

Spore is meant to be a casual game. Either way I don't see what's "Not serious" about anything. The only time you get "Not serious" animals really is when people make them that way.

[quote] - Interaction between the UFO and the citizens of another planet seemed to be more dynamic with more possibilities [/quote]

I haven't seen the trailer in awhile but from what I remember, interaction with a civ stage colony amounted to showing off and making the population ooh and ah, and possibly getting them to shoot you. You can do that now. Try dropping a Terra Crater near a city and see what the reaction is. There's plenty of awesome dynamic interaction in the game. Abduct an enemy citizen and drop him in one of your cities, see what happens. If you transplant a tribe to another planet, they'll freak out as they initially land on that new, unfamiliar planet and look absolutely terrified. After a bit they will get together and form together with the others.


[quote]2005 Spore seemed like a game for people who really took an interest in science, in evolution and cosmology; 2008 Spore seems more like a game for people into Pokemon and DDR. The fact remains that 2005 Spore is a game I really, really want to play, and 2008 Spore is a pale shadow of it; nearly everything that attracted me to Spore in 2005 is, well...not present in the final product. [/quote]

2005 spore was prerendered (so not everything shown was possible in the long run), but I don't really see what made 2005 spore more serious or science-focused. Your visions of a science-centric evolution simulator are nothing but illusions you made up in your head.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39519.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39519.page GMT
Perhaps it has been our fault as a community that the game is what it is today.

Didnt we perhaps over emphesice the editors?
[/quote]

I didn't; I was looking forward most to having a scietific universe simulator; the editors were a bonus.

[quote]
Altho the '05 seemed more sciency. Like I said.
[/quote]

Yeah. That's a large part of my disappointment.

[quote]
It was a game designed to teach us. What does the Spore we have today teach us?[/quote]

...rage? ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39524.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39524.page GMT
What they ended up with was a Saturday morning cartoon experience with very muted feedback both visually and otherwise. ie: playing a carnivore in this game is really drab, there's no sound and visual feedback that makes you believe your viciously toothed and clawed lizard of destruction is anything but a plush Jurassic Park stuffed animal.

There were revelations that came with the release of the Creature Creator (it was clearly made more 'cute' and people saw this and started commenting). Even so, people were still expecting something with a bit more ooomph - at least that's what I'm hearing.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39531.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39531.page GMT Thank you.

Though I do hope we don't have to pay tons of money for these, since some of us don't have tons of money to play with. Chances are however I'll buy one if it looks like something I'll really like]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39536.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39536.page GMT
2005 spore was prerendered (so not everything shown was possible in the long run), but I don't really see what made 2005 spore more serious or science-focused. Your visions of a science-centric evolution simulator are nothing but illusions you made up in your head.[/quote]


Hmm dont ever ever EVER forget that Will dropped tools near the tribes men and they started interacting with it.
If u dont understand the implications of this , we have no basis for discusion.
Also the focal point of the game was U guiding a species.
Focal point of todays game U ARE the species.
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39539.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39539.page GMT
In an age of ever-increasing gas prices, taxes, video game prices, internet and telecommunications fees, tightening bandwidth limits, record declines in consumer confidence, a stalled global economy, record dissatisfaction with governing bodies, and global conflict, I don't think that milking Spore for expansions will be anywhere near as profitable or as palatable for consumers. Thus, without an olive branch or bridge of some sort, I don't think Spore is going to get very far other than being a temporary fad or a couple week stand that wears off after a while. Don't get me wrong, the game is decent, but when you release a patch in which screws up the game for half of your customers on top of all the reports of internet authorization problems (particularly with the UK galactic edition) it leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. I've enjoyed Spore, but it's lack of depth will make me forget about the game way before any sort of expansion comes out unless meaningful free content is delivered.

Since we already know how this game works, I would hope that everyone forces the issue about meaningful free content or waits a couple years for all those expansions to come out as one coherent game since they didn't bother to delay the game until it was truly finished.

Will/Maxis/EA, I want free content. You aren't getting another penny out of me unless that starts happening. There's this thing called "give and take" and you guys can't keep taking without giving some. Don't forget about your competition too...there are a lot of great games coming out in the next 6 months. The market is even more crowded than it's ever been before.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39546.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39546.page GMT

[quote]Hmm dont ever ever EVER forget that Will dropped tools near the tribes men and they started interacting with it. [/quote]

don't remember that, no. However, if it was in there, remember it was prerendered. Who knows. Maybe down the line they figured out it wasn't possible to do that in the real game, or it just wasn't conductive to good gameplay. Anyone who looks at game's trailer from 3 years ago and uses that to set realistic expectations for the game that's released is a fool. Yes, there are some things that were missing from Spore 2005 and I'm sure that if Will was a magician he would wave his hand and add it to the game. Game development however does not work like that.

[quote] Also the focal point of the game was U guiding a species.
Focal point of todays game U ARE the species. [/quote]

1) Maybe I'm being picky but people who can't spell out 3 letter words bothers me and it makes it a chore to read your posts. I'm not going to be responding to such posts in the future as I find them to be a hassle

2) I don't see any difference in the style here. You already are guiding a species in Space, Tribal and Civ. You always WERE a singular entity in Creature/Cell, in every trailer. There was never anything to suggest anything else.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39545.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39545.page GMT
No way I'm buying an expansion.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39553.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39553.page GMT
They were talking expansion months before the games was even released.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39555.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39555.page GMT
No we are not making things up.
Go watch the presentations again. There was more behavioural teaching in the game erm, prerendered video errrm tech demo u cant deny the game has ..deviated from that idea.

well yea, its enough to get lost in.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39559.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39559.page GMT
as someone mentioned before, it's 100's of hours put in by teams of developers.

knowing people in the business changes my perspective a little i suppose. they're not in this to lose money.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39570.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39570.page GMT
well yea, its enough to get lost in. [/quote]

I repeat, anyone who takes a 2005 prerendered trailer and uses that to set expectations for a game released 3 years later is a fool. The 2005 trailer was a way to say "Hey, here's the game we're trying to make and here's how a general overview of what it's going to be like".]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39572.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39572.page GMT I don't see anything wrong with the graphics style. Also remember that "2005 Spore" was PRERENDERED and shown on ubercomputers. For all we know the graphics we see today was done so that lower-end computers could play the game.
[/quote]

Speaking as an animator/artist...[i]BULL.[/i]
Look, I know computer animation, computer art; I've been making it since 1992. I was very lucky; I had a high school Video Production teacher who managed to con the school board into buying New-Tek's Video Toaster, at the time a high-end video production machine which had the original version of LightWave 3D built into it. From that moment on, I found my medium, and have been animating ever since. For those of you not good at math, that's [i]SIXTEEN YEARS[/i] of computer animation under my belt...believe me, I know my stuff, here.

That said, the procedural animation in Spore? Quite possibly not something that can be done on today's computers. [i]But the ART STYLE[/i] is something else entirely. Cartoony, versus somewhat more realistic (though by no means completely realistic, even in the 2005 video), [i]is an aesthetic choice made completely independent of the present state of technology.[/i]
The 2005 look of Spore? [i]Beyond[/i] possible with ordinary technology [i]even back then.[/i] The change to a cartoony look from semi-realistic is one that [i]didn't have to happen,[/i] and that's a fact.

[quote]
[quote] - Evolution is taken seriously, design matters in gameplay as well as aesthetics [/quote]

Spore is meant to be a casual game. Either way I don't see what's "Not serious" about anything. The only time you get "Not serious" animals really is when people make them that way.
[/quote]

Spore was not [i]THIS[/i] casual in the 2005 demo.
The design mattered; where you place the weapon on a creature mattered, the overall design [i]mattered;[/i] your creature was not a collection of stats which are the only things that matter in gameplay, and that's the point.
And I don't [i]CARE[/i] if Spore was meant to be a casual game; my basic premise is that it [i]SHOULDN'T BE.[/i]

[quote]
[quote] - Interaction between the UFO and the citizens of another planet seemed to be more dynamic with more possibilities [/quote]

I haven't seen the trailer in awhile but from what I remember, interaction with a civ stage colony amounted to showing off and making the population ooh and ah, and possibly getting them to shoot you. You can do that now. Try dropping a Terra Crater near a city and see what the reaction is. There's plenty of awesome dynamic interaction in the game. Abduct an enemy citizen and drop him in one of your cities, see what happens. If you transplant a tribe to another planet, they'll freak out as they initially land on that new, unfamiliar planet and look absolutely terrified. After a bit they will get together and form together with the others.
[/quote]

And how much does that affect gameplay, [i]really?[/i]
Can you establish relationships with these empires? Beyond superficial, stat-based levels? No, really not.
But you should be able to.

[quote]
2005 spore was prerendered (so not everything shown was possible in the long run), but I don't really see what made 2005 spore more serious or science-focused.
[/quote]

Then I can never explain it to you. Maybe part of your problem is that you seem only able to consider the visuals, and not the picture WW painted for us of what Spore would end up being as he described the intention of Spore during the demo...an intention which changed dramatically by release, I might add.
But for whatever reason, you're not seeing it...but I'm not a lone nut, here; [i]MANY[/i] other people see what I see. It's just possible that [i]you're[/i] blind, and not we deluded.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39579.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39579.page GMT

[quote]Hmm dont ever ever EVER forget that Will dropped tools near the tribes men and they started interacting with it. [/quote]

don't remember that, no. However, if it was in there, remember it was prerendered. Who knows. Maybe down the line they figured out it wasn't possible to do that in the real game, or it just wasn't conductive to good gameplay. Anyone who looks at game's trailer from 3 years ago and uses that to set realistic expectations for the game that's released is a fool. Yes, there are some things that were missing from Spore 2005 and I'm sure that if Will was a magician he would wave his hand and add it to the game. Game development however does not work like that.

[quote] Also the focal point of the game was U guiding a species.
Focal point of todays game U ARE the species. [/quote]

1) Maybe I'm being picky but people who can't spell out 3 letter words bothers me and it makes it a chore to read your posts. I'm not going to be responding to such posts in the future as I find them to be a hassle

2) I don't see any difference in the style here. You already are guiding a species in Space, Tribal and Civ. You always WERE a singular entity in Creature/Cell, in every trailer. There was never anything to suggest anything
lse.[/quote]

Now you are just being mean and personal.
Very immature to comment about someone's spelling on an international forum.
And eventhough i tried to have a sane discusion, without being mean or patronising you have shown u can not behave in the same manner. Don't read my posts if they are a chore.
But because my mother didn't raise a peasant.

I apoligise if I have upset u my good man.
I bid you farewell.

/peace]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39585.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39585.page GMT
well yea, its enough to get lost in. [/quote]

I repeat, anyone who takes a 2005 prerendered trailer and uses that to set expectations for a game released 3 years later is a fool. The 2005 trailer was a way to say "Hey, here's the game we're trying to make and here's how a general overview of what it's going to be like".[/quote]

Understandable. My gripe really isn't with the variation of the original 2005 demo, it's more or less regarding the brevity or depth of the game and the challenge it presents to the player. 2 weeks after the game was released I've already stormed through the the sequence of stages on Hard with little to no effort. My original space game is maxed out on money and abilities. I had as one of my ongoing goals the elimination of the Grox which was keeping me motivated to play, but after discovering a few planets completely out of reach I've had my interest level completely sapped.

Don't get me wrong I give Will and his team tremendous credit for trying something new, and their efforts are commendable. The editors are brilliant and they did a fantastic job with them. But I bought the game for the gameplay, not the editors. So much of this game is mindlessly tedious and repetitive. And there's a ton of stuff you can do which seemingly serves no purpose whatsoever (crop circles, happiness booster, loyalty booster, city decorations). Hell, even if we wanted to sculpt a planet into some grand design we run the risk of the game simply not retaining every change (something like the last 50 changes are only retained).

In a way Spore reminds me of a Wii game. They're all creative concepts, but targeted towards the casual demographic who are mindless or just plain suck at video games. Every Wii game I got tirelessly bored of after a week or two, and eventually that led me to ebay the console. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39608.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39608.page GMT That said, the procedural animation in Spore? Quite possibly not something that can be done on today's computers. But the ART STYLE is something else entirely. Cartoony, versus somewhat more realistic (though by no means completely realistic, even in the 2005 video), is an aesthetic choice made completely independent of the present state of technology.
The 2005 look of Spore? Beyond possible with ordinary technology even back then. The change to a cartoony look from semi-realistic is one that didn't have to happen, and that's a fact.
[/quote]


Just checked the 2005 demo. The art style was slightly different but I really don't see why there's an uproar here. The colors were slightly less vibrant and I do like them slightly better but...i don't see the big deal.
[quote]
Spore was not THIS casual in the 2005 demo.
The design mattered; where you place the weapon on a creature mattered, the overall design mattered; your creature was not a collection of stats which are the only things that matter in gameplay, and that's the point.
And I don't CARE if Spore was meant to be a casual game; my basic premise is that it SHOULDN'T BE. [/quote]

Firstly, I don't see where design really mattered. Secondly, are you HONESTLY saying that YOU are the person who gets to decide whether the game is casual or not? Newsflash: that's the job of the developers. Just because YOU PERSONALLY do not like the game's direction does not make it a fault of the game.

[quote]

And how much does that affect gameplay, really?
Can you establish relationships with these empires? Beyond superficial, stat-based levels? No, really not.
But you should be able to. [/quote]

Uhh, could you in 2005 Spore? From what I saw Will was just toying around with them. He was never really doing anything meaninful with civ-stage creatures.



[quote]Then I can never explain it to you. Maybe part of your problem is that you seem only able to consider the visuals, and not the picture WW painted for us of what Spore would end up being as he described the intention of Spore during the demo...an intention which changed dramatically by release, I might add. [/quote]

You're making stuff up. You imagined a game to be something other than what it was.

[quote] But for whatever reason, you're not seeing it...but I'm not a lone nut, here; MANY other people see what I see. It's just possible that you're blind, and not we deluded. [/quote]

And MANY other people also think that Spore is an awesome game that is very fun to play. What's your point?


Will Wright's biggest mistake was even releasing a 2005 demo. Goes to show that giving the public a general overview of what the game is going to be like isn't worth the shitstorm when, 3 years later, it's not exactly the same.



[quote]Understandable. My gripe really isn't with the variation of the original 2005 demo, it's more or less regarding the brevity or depth of the game and the challenge it presents to the player. 2 weeks after the game was released I've already stormed through the the sequence of stages on Hard with little to no effort. My original space game is maxed out on money and abilities. I had as one of my ongoing goals the elimination of the Grox which was keeping me motivated to play, but after discovering a few planets completely out of reach I've had my interest level completely sapped.[/quote]


Spore was always meant to be more of a sandbox game than a game with a myriad of challenging obstacles to overcome. Even in the 2005 demo he described the space stage as a giant sandbox or something like that.

[quote] In a way Spore reminds me of a Wii game. They're all creative concepts, but targeted towards the casual demographic who are mindless or just plain suck at video games. Every Wii game I got tirelessly bored of after a week or two, and eventually that led me to ebay the console. [/quote]
Either that or not everyone wants the same thing out of a video game that you do.
[quote]


Now you are just being mean and personal.
Very immature to comment about someone's spelling on an international forum.
And eventhough i tried to have a sane discusion, without being mean or patronising you have shown u can not behave in the same manner. Don't read my posts if they are a chore.
But because my mother didn't raise a peasant. [/quote]

Quit the drama. When learning Spanish, I've never tried to write "2" instead of "tu", for example. There's a marked difference between people who aren't fluent in a language and people who are making their posts hard to read just because they don't want to type a couple extra letters.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39615.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39615.page GMT ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39626.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39626.page GMT He had to do the demo just to convince upper management that such a game was marketable.

EXquize me for typo's OK, i'm not english.


And thats no drama.
Thats the way i'm used to type on the internet.
But nvm u obviously think i do this to make my posts hard to read.
Enough already, how mean can u get


For repleasing you by U, everybody does that FCOL.
Now FCOL i did on purpose ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39629.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39629.page GMT
I only have Occasional crashes on planets in space and i have to Alt+F4 to be able to leave the game.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39657.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39657.page GMT ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39660.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39660.page GMT where the sky's acid rain
and the cells that evolve are not tame
where I start with one dot
then consume a whole lot
and gradually move onto the plane

Oh old spore on the range
Where the stages gradually change
Where often is played
Skipped phases that had been made
and the game doesn't suck out my brain.

Give me a game
Where the cities are sane
and I can grow based on my will
I'll gradually turn
my old mucky worm
into a dominating power insane...

(but gradually)

Hmm...

Well, that sort of sums it up. Campfire laments of a game not given.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39662.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39662.page GMT Here's a visual summary of my previous point (why people feel misled) that was buried,

What the people upset were presented with in previews:

[img]http://www.archkckcs.org/stjoe/Dinosaurs_file/t-rex%20eating.jpg[/img]


What people who are upset felt they were delivered:

[img]http://www.thingamababy.com/photos/uncategorized/rex.jpg[/img]

That pretty much sums it up.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39664.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39664.page GMT
A picture says more then a 1000 words.....]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39676.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39676.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39689.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39689.page GMT Here's a visual summary of my previous point (why people feel misled) that was buried,

What the people upset were presented with in previews:

[img]http://www.archkckcs.org/stjoe/Dinosaurs_file/t-rex%20eating.jpg[/img]


What people who are upset felt they were delivered:

[img]http://www.thingamababy.com/photos/uncategorized/rex.jpg[/img]

That pretty much sums it up.[/quote]

EPIC]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39693.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39693.page GMT ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39706.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39706.page GMT
He really didn't say anything about expansion packs. He said he would like to see the game expanded in ways that obviously include non-gaming markets. Where that will lead them is anyone's guess short of those that took photos and examined at an OCD level that red butcher paper idea chart in the Maxis office.

An expansion to Spore may mean more content for the game, which is the likely path everyone is thinking about. Or it could be something totally out of left field like a physical toy a la Mr. Potato Head or a Starter Science Set (remember Will's tangent about getting a really good microscope?). They may even expand the editor technology to their Sims franchise and release a Creature-Creator-like Sims Character Maker!

We don't know, and to believe that the expansion he is mentioning is directly connected to the game is just... well, it isn't wishful thinking but it is definitely expected thinking and the opinion of the majority no matter if you love or hate the game.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39729.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39729.page GMT
[img]http://www.scharfphoto.com/fine_art_prints/archives/199812-053-Soil-Bacteria.jpg[/img]

[img]http://blog.craftzine.com/four_bacteria.jpg[/img]]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39737.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39737.page GMT
He really didn't say anything about expansion packs. He said he would like to see the game expanded in ways that obviously include non-gaming markets. Where that will lead them is anyone's guess short of those that took photos and examined at an OCD level that red butcher paper idea chart in the Maxis office.

An expansion to Spore may mean more content for the game, which is the likely path everyone is thinking about. Or it could be something totally out of left field like a physical toy a la Mr. Potato Head or a Starter Science Set (remember Will's tangent about getting a really good microscope?). They may even expand the editor technology to their Sims franchise and release a Creature-Creator-like Sims Character Maker!

We don't know, and to believe that the expansion he is mentioning is directly connected to the game is just... well, it isn't wishful thinking but it is definitely expected thinking and the opinion of the majority no matter if you love or hate the game.[/quote]

Not to be mean, but what do u guys think that horizontal expansions mean?
He wasnt talking about expansion packs as in the traditional sense, yes he was but when he talks about horizontal expansion he's more talking about T-shirts, lunchboxes and even microscopes as u point out.
unless i got that referal wrong.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39745.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39745.page GMT Just checked the 2005 demo. The art style was slightly different but I really don't see why there's an uproar here.
[/quote]

Then you're not looking hard enough. There's nothing [i]slight[/i] about the differences in look. Everything in 2008 is puffy and cute and rounded and cartoonish; many of the 2005 creatures were rather less Looney Tunes/Disney than that, quite noticeably so.

[quote]
Firstly, I don't see where design really mattered. Secondly, are you HONESTLY saying that YOU are the person who gets to decide whether the game is casual or not?
[/quote]

Actually, [i]YES.[/i]

Y'ever hear someone say to a politician something like, "You [i]have[/i] to answer me; I pay your salary!"? Same deal here: you alienate your audience, you lose revenue. End of story.

[quote]
You're making stuff up. You imagined a game to be something other than what it was.[/quote]

No, I'm really, really not.

[quote]
[quote] But for whatever reason, you're not seeing it...but I'm not a lone nut, here; MANY other people see what I see. It's just possible that you're blind, and not we deluded. [/quote]

And MANY other people also think that Spore is an awesome game that is very fun to play. What's your point? [/quote]

My point is that opinion over whether the game is fun or not has no bearing on the [i]FACTS[/i] of the 2005 demo and what it allegedly represented, what we were [i]TOLD[/i] we were going to get from the final product that we haven't gotten.

[quote]
Will Wright's biggest mistake was even releasing a 2005 demo. Goes to show that giving the public a general overview of what the game is going to be like isn't worth the shitstorm when, 3 years later, it's not exactly the same.[/quote]

No one wanted "exactly the same", but keeping the [i]essential concept[/i] the same would have been nice. Instead of a rich gaming experience set in a fleshed out world, we got cutesy editors and chopped-down gameplay.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39747.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39747.page GMT
The old spore cellular stage...
[img]http://ldopa.net/wp-content/uploads/spore_amoeba.thumbnail.jpg[/img]


Now...
[img]http://z.about.com/d/compsimgames/1/0/H/5/2/spore_cell_stage_2_bmp_jpgc.jpg[/img]

That's sadder than yarn will ever be. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39762.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39762.page GMT There is no point throwing this sane facts on this board around.

Ur..erm excuse me, You cant make people understand your frustration. I agree but i'm just a spot sad.
I dont see any progress in trying to make them see things your way. Since release any discusion about this has lead nowhere But by all means do go on for all i care.
I enjoy reading ur arguements since they are founded in reason.

But I dont think we, you ..anyone for that mather can change anything.
Spore has been launched and its going to take over the world as viciously as Spode.
Spore back packs, Spore lunch boxes, Spore television shows with our creatures, EA making big bucks on our intelectual property that we [b][u]agreed[/u][/b] to hand over to EA to do as they see fit.
I'm really , really starting to feel very sad and disapointed.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39765.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39765.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39769.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39769.page GMT Just checked the 2005 demo. The art style was slightly different but I really don't see why there's an uproar here.
[/quote]

Then you're not looking hard enough. There's nothing [i]slight[/i] about the differences in look. Everything in 2008 is puffy and cute and rounded and cartoonish; many of the 2005 creatures were rather less Looney Tunes/Disney than that, quite noticeably so.[/quote]Sporecasts. There are several that feature non-cartoon creatures. Problem solved.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39770.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39770.page GMT
He was talking about expansions in gameinformer a week before the game was even released.

Get into the know people.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39771.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39771.page GMT
He was talking about expansions in gameinformer a week before the game was even released.

Get into the know people.[/quote]

Eh at the NASA show I'm pretty sure he mentioned expansions, over one year ago.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39777.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39777.page GMT I'd have to say 2005 one is better in many ways, i actually like how it looks more than spore does now, even with low quality-ish video.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39784.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39784.page GMT
LOL @ forum title after 500 posts, saw it on Hawkian's post.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39786.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39786.page GMT
He was talking about expansions in gameinformer a week before the game was even released.

Get into the know people.[/quote]

Eh at the NASA show I'm pretty sure he mentioned expansions, over one year ago.[/quote]

You know what you and steven hawkins have in common?

You both keep proving me wrong! If it isn't the laws of black hole decay its you pointing out he said it years ago instead of weeks!

I hate you...but in a plutonic sense I love you too . You are my arch rival of information!]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39792.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39792.page GMT
You know what you and steven hawkins have in common?[/quote]

Also the hawk thing, right? Happy to keep up the healthy competition.

And oh, whoever pointed out that I'm a Mouth Breather now, I didn't even notice until reading that. Can't wait to get past this one... ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39813.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39813.page GMT
I'm not going to argue since a) it's irrelevant and B) you're apparently seeing things differently than I do, and as stated before it's largely irrelevant. Even if there was some giant graphics change it wouldn't change the fact that it was a trailer released 3 years ago

[quote]
Actually, YES.

Y'ever hear someone say to a politician something like, "You have to answer me; I pay your salary!"? Same deal here: you alienate your audience, you lose revenue. End of story.[/quote]

Apparently they think that the casual market is a bit larger than the hardcore science market...and they're probably right.



[quote]My point is that opinion over whether the game is fun or not has no bearing on the FACTS of the 2005 demo and what it allegedly represented, what we were TOLD we were going to get from the final product that we haven't gotten. [/quote]

No. You weren't. I refer to my earlier comment that you're a fool who knows nothing of game development if you think that a 3 year old trailer is going to be a perfectly accurate representation of the final product.

[quote]No one wanted "exactly the same", but keeping the essential concept the same would have been nice. Instead of a rich gaming experience set in a fleshed out world, we got cutesy editors and chopped-down gameplay. [/quote]

Care to give specific examples of how the gameplay is "chopped down"? And I'm looking for more than just minor stuff like being able to drag prey or something. The core gameplay in every stage is pretty much unchanged, all stages play similarly to how they did in the 2005 trailer. There are some small gameplay changes and not everything works the same way it does, but it all amounts to this. In both the 2005 spore and 2008 spore, you eat food to advance in cell and creature, your conquer/unite other tribes/nations in Tribal/Civ, and you do pretty much what you want in a very sandboxish space stage.
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39816.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39816.page GMT
But they won't be getting my dollars. I guess I'm not the target audience they're aiming for. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39844.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39844.page GMT
The Making of Spore program admits that the GDC demo was slightly fixed. The "game" Will demoed wasn't even a prototype of the game, but polished versions of some very strong pieces of programing. The actual game was not made then; it was a conceptual demo. This means that what you and everyone else saw was a more fleshed out and better explained map for the the final product so that everyone from the people sitting in the audiance to the members of the design team would have a better idea as to what Will was thinking about.

So that's it. There was no game in 2005. It was just a prettier version of the prototypes they released for download.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39853.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39853.page GMT
...not really. Spore keeps deciding that, while user content is all lovely and junk, what I [i]REALLY[/i] need in my Sporeverse is a few more Maxis creations.

[quote]Its no use rocketgirl.
There is no point throwing this sane facts on this board around. [/quote]

True. I was a fool, thinking reason and logic might carry some weight...you know...on the [i]internet.[/i]

*psigh* At least I'm not the only one who sees that.

[quote]But I dont think we, you ..anyone for that mather can change anything. [/quote]

You're [i]probably[/i] right...but...I've never been one to give up easy, and I'd [i]LIKE[/i] to believe that someone at Maxis is taking us (maybe even me personally) seriously. They're probably not, but...I'd give a left body part, yanno?

[quote]I won't be so trite as to say I'm getting sick of hearing about the 2005 GDC demo... but you guys know there were demos at E3 in 2006, 2007, and 2008, right? [/quote]

Where do you think the disappointment [i]began[/i] to fester?

[quote]Apparently they think that the casual market is a bit larger than the hardcore science market...and they're probably right. [/quote]

Even if they are, that doesn't mean Spore should be marketed toward the casual market.
Honestly...? When something is [i]good,[/i] it spreads. In 1977, you wouldn't have thought the general public dug on sci-fi...and then along comes Star Wars; suddenly [i]everyone's[/i] a sci-fi fan. Star Wars legitimized sci-fi; you could be a fan [i]without[/i] being branded a total nerd. Spore [i]could[/i] do the same thing for science, if only they'd try.

[quote]No. You weren't. I refer to my earlier comment that you're a fool who knows nothing of game development if you think that a 3 year old trailer is going to be a perfectly accurate representation of the final product. [/quote]

You're gonna make me do it, arn'cha? *psigh* Here: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0999360/
Second entry down; I worked on a game for Disney, FFS. And that's not the only game I ever made, it's just the only one with Hollywood actors in it and movie connections, thus getting me into IMDB. This know-nothing probably knows more than you ever will about game development.

Yeah, I know things get cut from games...but I've [i]NEVER[/i] worked on a game that has changed as dramatically as Spore did by the end of its development.

[quote]Care to give specific examples of how the gameplay is "chopped down"?[/quote]

Are you serious? Cuz this has been rehashed and rehashed and rehashed on the forums as it is, and I'm frankly sick of saying it over and over, and I certainly have no real desire to do it for [i]your[/i] benefit. If you've been on this forum for ten minutes, you've already come across these examples you're asking for a hundred times.

[quote][img]http://ldopa.net/wp-content/uploads/spore_amoeba.thumbnail.jpg[/img][/quote]

Wouldn't look out of place in your average petri dish; very cool.

[quote][img]http://z.about.com/d/compsimgames/1/0/H/5/2/spore_cell_stage_2_bmp_jpgc.jpg[/img][/quote]

A scene from Disney's [u]A Little Lost Paramecium[/u], in theaters this July.

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39854.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39854.page GMT
Didn't anybody else watch these? I know I've seen them multiple times...

[quote]
Where do you think the disappointment began to fester? [/quote]

Ah... that is actually your most telling post. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39856.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39856.page GMT

You know, that business model I mentioned would actually be a profit boom. You make the Galactic have every new thing automatically given to it - and regulars are to use the buy-an-expansion model. You figure the first expansion will realistically be priced at 29.99 (I see all the other expansions for the sims like this) so, you can still make the profit, while also jumping up the numbers and even price of galactic sales - while the vast majority will still be using the regular version, needing to buy all the tens of wonderful expansions at 29.99 before tax. This will jump the sales of the 80-dollar game until it runs out (limited number made from what I heard) while also promoting the game to those who would rather use illicit means of acquiring the product.

I mean, 10,000 copies of Galactic at 80 a pop comes up to 800,000 dollars - while 49.99 for the game at 10,000 sales would be (rounding) 500,000. However you slap on the 30, and its the same as the 800,000. Then you do another. And another. And another. And another. By 10 expansions at 10,000 sales each, you have made 3,500,000 million in raw income. Of course the stores will also take out their portion, and by the time it reaches there, it's about half that - off of just 10,000 games.

Now, instead of 10,000 - lets multiply that by 100,000 just to see what happens!

In case basic math is not your field, that is 35 million. Divide by half, and you should get an idea of income. Of course sales will likely be much higher than this and over time - so if you offer this with galactic now, you could make about 8 million up front at 100,000 sales, while making 35 million over the course of the next few years (the insta-8mil should help in covering at least some of the dev costs, while keeping everything in a reasonable budget).

If they take this approach and can move millions of units, rather than hundreds of thousands, you can see how profitable this can become - but only if they give a real incentive for those to buy. Galactic and early birds generates buzz, plus with that idea of free expansions to it, you get the basics of a marketing push where the price of that can be driven up - that means people with an unopened galactic could sell it for a lot.

It also means, when it runs out, EA could release special limited edition Galactic Editions for 200 dollars - assuming expansions would be 250 or more total. Various selling ideas and schemes can be inferred. But, if you don't have the marketing of word of mouth, or negative (as it seems to be now) you won't have an easy time pushing units in mass quantities. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39868.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39868.page GMT Even if they are, that doesn't mean Spore should be marketed toward the casual market.
Honestly...? When something is good, it spreads. In 1977, you wouldn't have thought the general public dug on sci-fi...and then along comes Star Wars; suddenly everyone's a sci-fi fan. Star Wars legitimized sci-fi; you could be a fan without being branded a total nerd. Spore could do the same thing for science, if only they'd try. [/quote]

But Spore was never out to be a hardcore evolution simulator. If you think that Spore would be a better game and would reach a larger audience if it was as you describe then go ahead and make an argument for that. Trust me, I'd love a game like that. All I see in this thread is mindless whining about how evil Maxis is for not delivering them a game that never existed and making design decisions slightly contrary to what they were looking for.

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39880.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39880.page GMT
Didn't anybody else watch these? I know I've seen them multiple times...[/quote]I watched them, and all I saw was practical aesthetic changes.

Seriously, the petri dish version of Cell causes me to puke because of the ugly green and yellow pallet. The blue to tan pallet they have in the final game is easier on my eyes.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39881.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39881.page GMT
The Making of Spore program admits that the GDC demo was slightly fixed. The "game" Will demoed wasn't even a prototype of the game, but polished versions of some very strong pieces of programing. The actual game was not made then; it was a conceptual demo. This means that what you and everyone else saw was a more fleshed out and better explained map for the the final product so that everyone from the people sitting in the audiance to the members of the design team would have a better idea as to what Will was thinking about.

So that's it. There was no game in 2005. It was just a prettier version of the prototypes they released for download.[/quote]

Man i have been saying this for weeks on end.
Noone seems to be willing to hear it

He admits that it was more of a pep rally.
None the less.....it was a beautifull concept.

True there is a clear evolution in the video's from concept to game.
So basicly it comes down to the idea or debate wether or not the right game desicions -for lack of a better term on my part- were made from concept to gold. The engine is there.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39883.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39883.page GMT [quote]
Where do you think the disappointment began to fester? [/quote]

Ah... that is actually your most telling post. [/quote]

Yeah, well, it's the truth.
I saw the revised look to Spore, and I was like, "Oh, no..." But I was cautiously optimistic, still; I was all, "It's just an aesthetic change; I can cope. I don't care for it, but as long as the game is still contains what I liked best about that first demo..."
...but then other changes started coming to light. The loss of the underwater stage was the one I took most in stride, believe it or not. I realize that one has stuck in many a craw, but I really didn't care all that much. Minor disappointment, very minor. But I started seeing other things as each demo came along; with each new presentation, something that had gotten me fired up about Spore was taken away until eventually almost [i]NONE[/i] of what I wanted was still there.
...and that's not to even [i]mention[/i] what was never said, what I didn't find out until the release, until I could actually play the game.

It was all downhill from the 2005 demo on; every decision made pulled something i was passionate about from the game.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39888.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39888.page GMT
The Making of Spore program admits that the GDC demo was slightly fixed. The "game" Will demoed wasn't even a prototype of the game, but polished versions of some very strong pieces of programing. The actual game was not made then; it was a conceptual demo. This means that what you and everyone else saw was a more fleshed out and better explained map for the the final product so that everyone from the people sitting in the audiance to the members of the design team would have a better idea as to what Will was thinking about.

So that's it. There was no game in 2005. It was just a prettier version of the prototypes they released for download.[/quote]

Man i have been saying this for weeks on end.
Noone seems to be willing to hear it

He admits that it was more of a pep rally.
None the less.....it was a beautifull concept.[/quote]Nobody is willing to hear it because, for some stupid reason, people actually thought the game was close to done at that point, despite the fact that Will clearly states the demo he was about to show is extremely rough and in its very early stages.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39891.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39891.page GMT *takes out a cricket bat*
may as well

Expansions are good... as long as they are not patches... let me validate

a)If the addition changes+fixes the original gameplay it is a *patch*
b)if it is something that adds to the original gameplay it is an *expansion*

Such as the patch that was released recently despite its problems, was trying to improve the gameplay by tweaking difficulty and adding things to help people... admittedly it is too bug ridden for that to be true, but it is what a patch is supposed to be. That bieng said a lot of game decelopers see fit to add small things as patches for free... those people get my nice but not marketedly smart people award... I love developers that give free expansions, even if they are small.

However expansions are good, as long as they are approprietely priced and not very narrow in scope... it has to be something worth peoples money. Sims 2 is an example of over-expansioning. Simple additions like a new building in tribal or a Plant creator should be patched in... I know, it is an addition (though the plant creator is technically on the disc) but that stuff is too narrow in scope for me to say "Thats worth paying for"

But will I buy a Spore expansion... probably... will I buy an expansion with almost nothing in it that comes out 2 months from now... no... For example, I used to be a fan of the MMO City of Heroes... a game where you pay a monthly fee and one of the things I loved was large free expansions... well go ahead and check out their website now... there are so many mini epxansions trying to nickel and dime you... and since it is an MMO you kinda feel out of the loop if you dont ahve what other people have... That is an example of good ways to earn money in the most dirty and nasty way.

So in conclusions
Expansions = Good
Patches (beta tested bug free patches) = Good
Free mini expansions in Patches = Very Good
Bullshit mini expansions meant to nickel and dime = Terrible and should not be bought sheerly out of principle...

Aka: If they start offering a creature part set for 10.99$ with 4 arms and 4 legs I will slap someone]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39900.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39900.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39906.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39906.page GMT But Spore was never out to be a hardcore evolution simulator.
[/quote]

You wouldn't know it to hear Will Wright talk, at least early on.

[quote]
If you think that Spore would be a better game and would reach a larger audience if it was as you describe then go ahead and make an argument for that.
[/quote]

You think I've been doing much else here?

[quote]
Trust me, I'd love a game like that. All I see in this thread is mindless whining about how evil Maxis is for not delivering them a game that never existed...
[/quote]

Let me fix that for you: ...for not being [i]HONEST[/i] about the game they'd be delivering...

[quote]
...and making design decisions slightly contrary to what they were looking for.[/quote]

Again, that needs fixing: ...and making design decisions [i]WILDLY[/i] contrary to what they were looking for.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39907.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39907.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39908.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39908.page GMT
Personally, i'll probably get a patch or two because of my girlfriend's association with GameStop (soon to be ended though, there goes my discount, lol), and her general love of games (and expansions). [edit] Come to think of it, i'll likely acquire it from a privately owned game store, so i'm not feeding Gamestop's corporate machine. Look up "Whistleblower Zero"'s youtube account, please! [/edit]

I'll likely pick my upgrades, so that i get what i want out of them. I mean seriously, wasn't that why i bought the game? To take control, and manipulate a whole galaxy (not universe, bad bad), pretty much sums it up. That same philosophy will carry over into the "real galaxy", where i don't buy things with spice or sporebucks.

I'm interested in seeing what they expand on. I'm sure it'll actually be fun when they stop porting the individual stages to everything else like you know they will.

As for the look of it changing, i do wish it looked like the above examples of the 2005 demonstration. The cartoony thing doesn't bother me, it's just a bit of a graphical "look what i can do with your stuff" kinda deal. I actually enjoy it on that level, because there's nothing worse than pouring your heart into a project that is incapable of producing impressive results to begin with.

That, and i get to keep the eyes from the cell stage, which i like better than the rest.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39911.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39911.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39913.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39913.page GMT ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39917.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39917.page GMT [/quote]I didn't do that until my Phayno creature, mostly because I failed to find the cartoon eyes I wanted to use in Creature phase.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39923.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39923.page GMT
Your post was broken; I fixed it for you.

A demo may be extremely rough; doesn't mean the basic concept and gameplay has to change to the point of being only superficially the same.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39924.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39924.page GMT
1. The original cell stage didnt have any imagination to it. Just a bunch of specs, and bland colors. I like the current one much better

2. The sea stage. Alot of people say they wish that that was included int he current game, and yes it does look pretty neat. But the more i think about it, the more it seems like it would just be a 3d version of the cell stage. Theres no difference really between the two. You swim around and eat things until you evolve. I think maybe they held out becuase they wanted to do something better with it, and make it more unique. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39933.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39933.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39937.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39937.page GMT
Your post was broken; I fixed it for you.

A demo may be extremely rough; doesn't mean the basic concept and gameplay has to change to the point of being only superficially the same.[/quote]Well, since you are not willing to listen to reason, I guess I might as well say it.

Go to Maxis and hold them at gunpoint then to make the game as described in 2005.

As far as the group I'm a member of is concerned, the game is as conceptually designed as it was back in 2005. We play starting off as a cell, we eat microscopic food, we produce physical changes that eventually makes us too big for the microscopic world, we make our way into the multi-cellular dimension where we continue to play by the "eat or be eaten" rules of survival, along the way developing our brain until we reach sentient state which allows us to not only recognize ourselves, but use advance weaponry. And so forth and so forth and so forth. It's just as he described it in 2005, it's just as how he drew it up for WIRED magazine months before.

So I don't know what you are seeing differently other than aesthetics. One looks realisitc, the other looks cartoony. Big whoop.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39940.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39940.page GMT
People were expecting a game in which they had control, and for good reason as they were told they were going to have that control.

The expected that they could build the creature the way they wanted, could nest where they chose, build cities and tribal villages according to persona whim. Venture through space and mold the galaxy.

What happened was they found you could build creatures with the parts the game dictates you find based on specific input (anyone notice that?) and nest in specific scripted locations rather than freely (whatever happened to having to defend the nest anyway... for that matter nothing really happens in the creature stage that isn't specifically scripted). In space you don't so much a mold the galaxy rather than tend to it and change a few variables on a planet, and most of those lack any sort of editor (flora).

I see a very distinct and destructive dichotomy there, one that has obviously resulted in players who were used to Wright games that gave the player control and input in their game balking when that control was all but eradicated.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39971.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39971.page GMT
People were expecting a game in which they had control, and for good reason as they were told they were going to have that control.

The expected that they could build the creature the way they wanted, could nest where they chose, build cities and tribal villages according to persona whim. Venture through space and mold the galaxy.

What happened was they found you could build creatures with the parts the game dictates you find based on specific input (anyone notice that?) and nest in specific scripted locations rather than freely (whatever happened to having to defend the nest anyway... for that matter nothing really happens in the creature stage that isn't specifically scripted). In space you don't so much a mold the galaxy rather than tend to it and change a few variables on a planet, and most of those lack any sort of editor (flora).

I see a very distinct and destructive dichotomy there, one that has obviously resulted in players who were used to Wright games that gave the player control and input in their game balking when that control was all but eradicated.[/quote]


Bing bing, we have a winner.
Well put.
And yes, for some reason i always feel pushed towards a certain evolution with a creature.
Eventhough i can create anything i want..but there is a pretty scripted linear path.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39979.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39979.page GMT
People were expecting a game in which they had control, and for good reason as they were told they were going to have that control.

The expected that they could build the creature the way they wanted, could nest where they chose, build cities and tribal villages according to persona whim. Venture through space and mold the galaxy.

What happened was they found you could build creatures with the parts the game dictates you find based on specific input (anyone notice that?) and nest in specific scripted locations rather than freely (whatever happened to having to defend the nest anyway... for that matter nothing really happens in the creature stage that isn't specifically scripted). In space you don't so much a mold the galaxy rather than tend to it and change a few variables on a planet, and most of those lack any sort of editor (flora).

I see a very distinct and destructive dichotomy there, one that has obviously resulted in players who were used to Wright games that gave the player control and input in their game balking when that control was all but eradicated.[/quote]Did SimCity (any of them) allow you to customize the way your building or the way your bus system looked? That was 10 years ago, and technology has come a long way since then. As of today, this is the most powerful form of player control that is available to us.

Give it another 10 years, and we may see games that don't need developers.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39981.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39981.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39988.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39988.page GMT And yes, for some reason i always feel pushed towards a certain evolution with a creature.
Eventhough i can create anything i want..but there is a pretty scripted linear path.[/quote]So I take it I'm the only one that's made a Social Carnivore?

The timeline history of my Acolyte is Carnivore-Social-Aggressive-Religious. I made it that way so I would have a Zealot class that didn't have to worry about colony revolts and a boat load of eco-disasters while having the ability to conserve energy used on UFO weapons that I could buy FOR CHEAP in Space.

If that's not breaking a pre-scripted linear path, I don't know what is.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39989.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39989.page GMT
Well, there are unique creatures. And some stuff is shaped by your decisions. And some of it's groundbreaking, like the way user-made content is shared.

...

Overall, I'm extremely disappointed. I don't care about the way it looks. Cartoony can be nice. And while editors are fun, they're not really what I wanted out of the game. I wanted more than just a couple hours of casual gameplay. I haven't even really gotten far into any of the space stages because it's so repetitive. I've never really enjoyed simple casual gaming...I need dynamics, I need intrigue, I need SUBSTANCE. And that's what I thought Spore was. From the first time I saw Will Wright talk about it to the E3 convention, I thought I would love it.

And here I am, wondering why I paid $50 for it when I'm bored with it and I haven't even gotten two creatures to the space stage.

It's not that Spore's open-ended. I spent hours playing The Sims 2, SimCity 2000 (old games!), and Black & White. It's that it feels pointless. Absolutely pointless.

And that's my $0.02, I suppose. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39997.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/39997.page GMT
People were expecting a game in which they had control, and for good reason as they were told they were going to have that control.

The expected that they could build the creature the way they wanted, could nest where they chose, build cities and tribal villages according to persona whim. Venture through space and mold the galaxy.

What happened was they found you could build creatures with the parts the game dictates you find based on specific input (anyone notice that?) and nest in specific scripted locations rather than freely (whatever happened to having to defend the nest anyway... for that matter nothing really happens in the creature stage that isn't specifically scripted). In space you don't so much a mold the galaxy rather than tend to it and change a few variables on a planet, and most of those lack any sort of editor (flora).

I see a very distinct and destructive dichotomy there, one that has obviously resulted in players who were used to Wright games that gave the player control and input in their game balking when that control was all but eradicated.[/quote]Did SimCity (any of them) allow you to customize the way your building or the way your bus system looked? [/quote]

Yes.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40015.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40015.page GMT And yes, for some reason i always feel pushed towards a certain evolution with a creature.
Eventhough i can create anything i want..but there is a pretty scripted linear path.[/quote]So I take it I'm the only one that's made a Social Carnivore?

If that's not breaking a pre-scripted linear path, I don't know what is.[/quote]
No you are right. I didn't mean it like that.

I wanted to express how i feel that everytime i play a game with a certain mouth
i reckognise scripted events. Thats the best i can describe it. There is a pattern if u take partA , PA1 will activate.
To me that felt linear. I know u can brake the chain by doing something different. But its the mouth that sets of a chain of reactions. And its always the same kind of reaction. The order is changed but the parts havent.

-I'm having problems expressing things on these isseus so i'm going to bud out because i dont think i understand everything as intented and it seems far to flametory a topic for my taste -
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40019.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40019.page GMT And yes, for some reason i always feel pushed towards a certain evolution with a creature.
Eventhough i can create anything i want..but there is a pretty scripted linear path.[/quote]So I take it I'm the only one that's made a Social Carnivore?

If that's not breaking a pre-scripted linear path, I don't know what is.[/quote]
No you are right. I didn't mean it like that.

I wanted to express how i feel that everytime i play a game with a certain mouth
i reckognise scripted events. Thats the best i can describe it. There is a pattern if u take partA , PA1 will activate.
To me that felt linear. I know u can brake the chain by doing something different. But its the mouth that sets of a chain of reactions. And its always the same kind of reaction. The order is changed but the parts havent.

-I'm having problems expressing things on these isseus so i'm going to bud out because i dont think i understand everything as intented and it seems far to flametory a topic for my taste -
[/quote]

I'll try and exemplify what he means by using the creature stage as an example.

When you use a part early on in creature, you always find linear progressions of improvements of that part and little else. Sure you find lots of eyeballs and limbs of every sort, but if you decide you want to alter your creature so that it strikes instead of spits the game practically forces you to remain on a path of linear upgrades to spitting. It doesn't matter how long you run around and dig up sparkling bones, you keep getting upgrades rather than diversity.

It's like having a bully behind your back shoving you down a corridor and if you try an open a door the bully slams you forward anyway. That is rigidity, and something very odd to find in a Wright developed game.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40044.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40044.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40073.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40073.page GMT 2. The sea stage. Alot of people say they wish that that was included int he current game, and yes it does look pretty neat. But the more i think about it, the more it seems like it would just be a 3d version of the cell stage. Theres no difference really between the two. You swim around and eat things until you evolve. I think maybe they held out becuase they wanted to do something better with it, and make it more unique. [/quote]

I'd want the sea stage for the sake of completeness.

See, some of us still cling to the idea of evolution being played out in Spore; with that in mind, having a sea stage--though redundant to gameplay--certainly mimics actual evolution. At one time, Spore seemed to be at least 1/3 to 1/2 teaching tool, consciousness expansion; Will Wright clearly gave the impression that Spore was fun, but also educational. I actually [i]WANTED[/i] that out of Spore, but it's completely gone from the game now. I wonder what happened to that, if Will Wright ever thinks about it, if it ever causes him discomfort or if he's ever embarrassed at how little Spore actually accomplishes that goal, that explicitly stated goal of his. I hope so.

Here, I'll even type out what he said (I can't find an online transcript) to show you what he said Spore would be and what it's [i]NOT:[/i]

[quote="Will Wright"]
"...I want to talk about toys, and the power I see inherent in them.
"When I was a kid, I actually attended Montessori School up to sixth grade in Atlanta, GA. And at the time, I didn't think much about it, but then late I kind of realized that that was kind of a high point of my education. From that point on, everything else was pretty much downhill. And it wasn't until later as I started making games that I really actually think of them more as toys; people call me a game designer but I really think of these things more as toys.
"But I started getting really interesting in Maria Montessori and her methods, and the way she kinda, the way she went about things, and the way she thought it very valuable for kids to kind of discover these things on their own instead of being taught these things just kind of overtly. And she would design these toys where kids, in playing with these toys, would come to understand these deep principles of life and nature through play. And since they would discover those things, it really stuck with them so much more. And also they would experience their own failures, there was a failure-based aspect to learning there; it was very important.
"And so the games I do I think of really as modern Montessori toys. And I really kind of want them to be presented in a way to where kids can kind of explore and discover their own principles.
"So a few years ago I actually started getting very interested in the SETI program. And that's kinna the way I work, is I get kind of interested in certain subjects, I dive in, I research them, and then I try to figure out how to craft a toy around that so that other people can experience the same sense of discovery that I did as I was studying that subject.
"And it kind of led me to astrobiology, which is the study of possible life in the universe, and then to Drake's equation, you know, which is thinking of the probability of life arising on other planets, how long it might last, how many planets are out there, stuff like that. And I started looking at how interesting Drake's equation was, because it spanned all these different subjects; you know, physics, chemistry, sociology, economics, astronomy...and another thing that really impressed me a long time ago was [u]Powers of Ten[/u], you know, Charles Reames film. And I started kind of putting those two together and wondering, could I put together a toy where kinds would kind of trip across all these interesting principles of life, you know, as it exists and as it might go in the future, things where you might kind of trip across things like the Copernican Principle, the Fermi Paradox, the Anthropic Principle, the origin of life.
"And so I'm going to show you today a toy that I've been working on..."
[/quote]

So that's what Spore was supposed to be about, circa 2007.
Well, I don't know about you, but to [i]ME,[/i] that sounds like this game is supposed to be a game of science, where people learn by trying and doing and occasionally failing, but ultimately learning about various concepts of the real world through play.
...how much of that is in Spore? Truly, how much? [i]AT BEST,[/i] we learn about ecosystems, how the temperature has to be just right, how the cloud density has to be just right...and apparently you can be quite arbitrary about which plants and animals you can put on the planet at these temperatures and atmosphere densities, but hey...

So to any of you people who try to claim that Spore was never meant to be a deep, science-based game...? You're [i]full of it.[/i] It was, Will Wright [i]said so,[/i] and clearly that much was stripped out of it. End of story.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40118.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40118.page GMT And yes, for some reason i always feel pushed towards a certain evolution with a creature.
Eventhough i can create anything i want..but there is a pretty scripted linear path.[/quote]So I take it I'm the only one that's made a Social Carnivore?

If that's not breaking a pre-scripted linear path, I don't know what is.[/quote]
No you are right. I didn't mean it like that.

I wanted to express how i feel that everytime i play a game with a certain mouth
i reckognise scripted events. Thats the best i can describe it. There is a pattern if u take partA , PA1 will activate.
To me that felt linear. I know u can brake the chain by doing something different. But its the mouth that sets of a chain of reactions. And its always the same kind of reaction. The order is changed but the parts havent.

-I'm having problems expressing things on these isseus so i'm going to bud out because i dont think i understand everything as intented and it seems far to flametory a topic for my taste -
[/quote]

I'll try and exemplify what he means by using the creature stage as an example.

When you use a part early on in creature, you always find linear progressions of improvements of that part and little else. Sure you find lots of eyeballs and limbs of every sort, but if you decide you want to alter your creature so that it strikes instead of spits the game practically forces you to remain on a path of linear upgrades to spitting. It doesn't matter how long you run around and dig up sparkling bones, you keep getting upgrades rather than diversity.

It's like having a bully behind your back shoving you down a corridor and if you try an open a door the bully slams you forward anyway. That is rigidity, and something very odd to find in a Wright developed game.[/quote]Again, am I the only one that never had this problem? If I wanted my creature to strike instead of spit, I looked at what was available that gave me that ability and picked what I liked. And if creative aesthetics was that SPORE important, I would pick the part that I felt best fit my visual pursasion for the creature, even if that means I end up using spikes as horns just to get a the strike ability or, as was the case with another creature, hiding a part that gave me the ability behind/inside a larger part.

The game is about user creativity if nothing else, and so far, a lot of the people complaining about these linear progressions are not thinking outside of the box. At least from my point of view.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40290.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40290.page GMT Bad pun, I know...

Still, with all its lacks, I can appreciate, although not [i]that much[/i], Spore. What has my underwear in a bunch is the lack of story once you get into Space. I've said that many times already so don't worry, I won't repeat myself. (If you do want to know, search my posts.)

We have a galaxy to play with but everything we find in it has nothing to do with fun. It's so shallow that a film of humidity on a table can contain, in the very least, 200 spore galaxies.

What have they done during 7 years? I cannot fathom. I am a programmer so don't spar with me with meaningless crap. In my opinion, if Maxis would have known how to do it properly the first time, 5 years would have been aplenty.

As for expansions, count me out unless it has to do with depth, which I doubt it'll be. Maxis has always been known for, somewhat, aesthetically pleasing games, but that's it. And if anyone is interested to argue that Spore is a simulator, well, I have big news for you. The galaxy isn't just about mining spice, making friends/enemies, killing sick puppies (why not find a stupid cure by having the player look for PLANTS instead? Huh Maxis? I know, it would still be the same crap of fetch but at least it would be a BIT different.) and defending from pirates. So, if I'm to buy an expansion, it will have to be on story and depth. Nothing else. I'm not that interested in creating Statues for my City Hall or new whachamacallit for that old gizzymeboon. Will, as far as I'm concerned, you played your cards wrong.

In a giant nutshell, that's pretty much it.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40294.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40294.page GMT
People were expecting a game in which they had control, and for good reason as they were told they were going to have that control.

The expected that they could build the creature the way they wanted, could nest where they chose, build cities and tribal villages according to persona whim. Venture through space and mold the galaxy.

What happened was they found you could build creatures with the parts the game dictates you find based on specific input (anyone notice that?) and nest in specific scripted locations rather than freely (whatever happened to having to defend the nest anyway... for that matter nothing really happens in the creature stage that isn't specifically scripted). In space you don't so much a mold the galaxy rather than tend to it and change a few variables on a planet, and most of those lack any sort of editor (flora).

I see a very distinct and destructive dichotomy there, one that has obviously resulted in players who were used to Wright games that gave the player control and input in their game balking when that control was all but eradicated.[/quote]Did SimCity (any of them) allow you to customize the way your building or the way your bus system looked? That was 10 years ago, and technology has come a long way since then. As of today, this is the most powerful form of player control that is available to us.

Give it another 10 years, and we may see games that don't need developers.[/quote]

I used to make my own buildings all the time? from sim city 2000 on I did.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40300.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40300.page GMT So to any of you people who try to claim that Spore was never meant to be a deep, science-based game...? You're [i]full of it.[/i] It was, Will Wright [i]said so,[/i] and clearly that much was stripped out of it. End of story.[/quote]The depth of Spore has been beaten to a pulp as far as I'm concern. If anything Will got what he set out to do on the science side, and that is to get people actually interested and thinking about science via the Montasorri meathod.

I mean, hell, I didn't know what a Binary System was until I discovered one in Spore and was like "There's a possibility for a solar system to have two suns?!" And then from that aspect of play, I ended up learning, on my own, that, yes, that kind of thing is very possible. Rare, but possible.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40301.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40301.page GMT
I mean, hell, I didn't know what a Binary System was until I discovered one in Spore and was like "There's a possibility for a solar system to have two suns?!" And then from that aspect of play, I ended up learning, on my own, that, yes, that kind of thing is very possible. Rare, but possible.[/quote]

Was there anything [i]else/i] you learned from Spore? Did you learn anything about the universe by [i]DOING[/i] something, rather than just [i]seeing[/i] something?

...or was it just binary star systems? Cuz I gotta tell ya...if that's the extent of it, you were cheated. So was I, so were we all.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40319.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40319.page GMT
I mean, hell, I didn't know what a Binary System was until I discovered one in Spore and was like "There's a possibility for a solar system to have two suns?!" And then from that aspect of play, I ended up learning, on my own, that, yes, that kind of thing is very possible. Rare, but possible.[/quote]

Was there anything [i]else[/i] you learned from Spore? Did you learn anything about the universe by [i]DOING[/i] something, rather than just [i]seeing[/i] something?

...or was it just binary star systems? Cuz I gotta tell ya...if that's the extent of it, you were cheated. So was I, so were we all.[/quote]Uhm, again, I don't think Spore was suppose to TEACH you science, just get you interested and thinking about it. Getting people interested in a subject matter through play is something Will Wright obviously feels very passionately about. Otherwise, he wouldn't have made a game like SimCity that indirectly got people interested in Urban Developement or a game like The Sims that indirectly got people interested in social dynamic behaviors and other related subjects.

If Spore was actually suppose to TEACH us, then yes, as an Education game, it sucks. But I don't see Spore sitting on the Education shelf at my local gaming store next to Doria the Explorer or Spongebob Typing.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40333.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40333.page GMT
this is disgusting business practices, i knew ea would milk us of every cent we own if we want spore to be what it should have been]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40337.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40337.page GMT If Spore was actually suppose to TEACH us, then yes, as an Education game, it sucks. But I don't see Spore sitting on the Education shelf at my local gaming store next to Doria the Explorer or Spongebob Typing.[/quote]

Oh I have learned from Spore.

Be wary, be very wary of Will Wright's games in the future. Lesson learned.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40346.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40346.page GMT If Spore was actually suppose to TEACH us, then yes, as an Education game, it sucks. But I don't see Spore sitting on the Education shelf at my local gaming store next to Doria the Explorer or Spongebob Typing.[/quote]

Oh I have learned from Spore.

Be wary, be very wary of Will Wright's games in the future. Lesson learned.[/quote]Yeah, but that's economics and consumerism. We're talking science here. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40353.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40353.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40369.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40369.page GMT
I mean, how would you feel if a project you spent the better part of seven years producing was finally out in the public only to have it butchered and birated by everyone?]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40373.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40373.page GMT [/quote]

Then it failed.

Because when I'm terraforming a planet, you know what I'm thinking about? Filling the rote requirements so I can max out my colonies, nothing more. Why? Because there's nothing to figure out.

If this game wanted me to think about science, terraforming should have to involving figuring out [i]HOW[/i] to balance an ecosystem: "These plants have these traits and requirements, those animals have those traits and requirements, the planet is this far from the local star...what combination of all of these produces enough atmosphere and the right temperatures to make a terran planet?" [i]THAT[/i] would make me think about science, about what it all means.
...but Spore isn't [i]ABOUT[/i] that, is it? Spore is about moving the dot with the hot-and-cold tools and the cloud tools, then just plopping down [i]any[/i] old plants and animals, and doing it three times. That's it. That's a rote procedure, not a malleable toy with lots of failure space in which to learn by exploring!

[quote]
Getting people interested in a subject matter through play is something Will Wright obviously feels very passionately about. Otherwise, he wouldn't have made a game like SimCity that indirectly got people interested in Urban Developement or a game like The Sims that indirectly got people interested in social dynamic behaviors and other related subjects.[/quote]

Well, I'm sorry, but on Spore, he totally whiffed.
SimCity and TheSims [i]HAD[/i] lots of failure space, lots of freeform, sandbox gameplay. Spore doesn't.

[quote]
If Spore was actually suppose to TEACH us, then yes, as an Education game, it sucks. But I don't see Spore sitting on the Education shelf at my local gaming store next to Doria the Explorer or Spongebob Typing.[/quote]

No, you don't.
But that's because either Spore was changed to no longer be an educational toy [i]OR[/i] the attempt to make it one failed utterly. Because Will Wright claimed he was trying to make one--and I transcribed the beginning of the 2007 TED demo where he says this myself if you really want to see it--as recently as last year. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40381.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40381.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40383.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40383.page GMT
I'm on here bitching from occasion because I generally enjoy the game and want to see it exceed. In fact I firmly believe that's possible with a few improvements or new things to discover (except the creature and tribal stages, which are almost beyond redemption in their current state).

Plus I feel the need to try my best to persuade EA/Maxis to consider free content updates (even though it's a losing battle), or barring that try my best to lambaste them for money grubbing with the inevitable deluge of expansion packs and show that this kind of business model doesn't appeal to me.

What pisses me off is they got away with it for The Sims, so they'll likely get away with it for this game too. As much as we all complain, there's still gonna be people who are willing to dish out $30 a pop for content updates.

Meanwhile there's respectable companies like VALVe which has been releasing regular balance changes and free content updates to Team Fortress 2 which is keeping many people (myself included) hooked like a heroine addict, and eager to throw money at the company for every future release. How I wish more gaming companies would follow in their example.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40385.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40385.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40398.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40398.page GMT [/quote]

Then it failed.

Because when I'm terraforming a planet, you know what I'm thinking about? Filling the rote requirements so I can max out my colonies, nothing more. Why? Because there's nothing to figure out.

If this game wanted me to think about science, terraforming should have to involving figuring out [i]HOW[/i] to balance an ecosystem: "These plants have these traits and requirements, those animals have those traits and requirements, the planet is this far from the local star...what combination of all of these produces enough atmosphere and the right temperatures to make a terran planet?" [i]THAT[/i] would make me think about science, about what it all means.[/quote]Whoa, whoa, whoa! Hold up.

You actually think terraforming, the theory of it, involves just plopping down plants to produce an atomsphere on a rock that orbits a heat source in the middle of the vacum of space? Do you even know what happens to a plant exposed to the vacum of space? It freezes almost instantanously in the shadows or burns to its original carbon elements due to overexposure of unfiltered sun rays. You cannot produce an atmosphere simply by placing plants down. It's way more complicated than that.

And if you think you can, I invite you to try it. They sell vacumm chambers at science stores across the country. Just put a house-hold plant in there, suck the air out, and then tell me if the planet is able to produce any oxygen when there is no carbon dioxide for it to "breathe" in.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40402.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40402.page GMT
Not to be cruel or anything, but I actually genuinely hope so. I hope these comments [i]DO[/i] make them feel...well, not bad, actually; [i]embarrassed.[/i] I hope they read comments like mine and other peoples' and realize, "Yeah...we screwed up. We promised one thing, delivered another...they're [i]right[/i] to be disappointed, and I feel like a chowderhead now, especially when they can produce evidence of me saying these things in videos on YouTube."
I hope they think first next time, before shooting off their mouths and getting hopes up, I hope they take a reading of their [i]actual[/i] audience after a demo, instead of trying to shoehorn the game into a specific demographic, thus alienating their core audience. I hope they read these things and feel embarrassed...because they know they flamingoed up.

[quote]
I mean, how would you feel if a project you spent the better part of seven years producing was finally out in the public only to have it butchered and birated by everyone?[/quote]

If I were [i]honest[/i] with myself...? I'd have to admit that it's [i]at least[/i] as much my fault as the audience; nobody is obligated to like--or only [i]quietly[/i] dislike--something I've made. If I were them, I'd just hope the criticism was constructive. I've tried to make mine as such; sometimes I go off, but for the most part...well, I try to state clearly what the problem is and how to fix it.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40406.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40406.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40408.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40408.page GMT
OMG! I found him!?!

The one person on the planet that hates Team Fortress 2!

/me wishes there was an achievement for this discovery!

[quote=rocketgirl]
I mean, how would you feel if a project you spent the better part of seven years producing was finally out in the public only to have it butchered and birated by everyone?[/quote]

Considering I'd be open and honest with the people who are energetic enough to visit my projects open forum I'd be shocked. I don't see the positive to not shoveling info about your game into peoples throats. As long as that info is open and honest it can only lead to helpful and constructive feedback and a non-shocked audience upon release.

Anyone who thinks this policy is a bad one hasn't been around enough small gaming companies when they release their first 6 or so games. Because that's how they do it and those first 6 games "KICK SPORE "
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40410.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40410.page GMT
how many expansion does the sims 2 have? fifty?

how many of those could have been a patch? 49?

you think its gonna be different with spore? please we all knew this was gonna happen.. you buy anything with a big white and blue "EA" logo on the cover and you know youre gonna have to dish out a lot more cash later on.

how many sims2 expansions were just a bunch of stupid looking chairs, hairstles, clothes, sandals and whatnot?

you think its gonna be different with spore? you dont think were gonna be paying 30 bucks for a billion different little "Parts-Packs"?

think about it...

apartment-life spore pack! (give your creations a pillow... with your name on it!)
kitchen style spore pack! (give your creations silverwear and a chef hat!)
vacation life spore pack! (give your creations a surf board!)
night life spore pack! (give your creations a pimpin' suit!)
university spore pack! (give your creations a bunch of books!)
cast away spore pack! (give your creations an autographed "wilson" volleyball!)
pets spore pack! (give your creations a puffier tail! wait.. and a leash!)


ahhh the madness]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40415.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40415.page GMT
OMG! I found him!?!

The one person on the planet that hates Team Fortress 2!

/me wishes there was an achievement for this discovery![/quote]

Yeah and I personally have no idea why anyone likes it...it's is extra ordinarily boring. I have had 10000000x more fun in 2 seconds of spore then I did of 1 hour of TF2....yeah it sucks that bad.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40418.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40418.page GMT
You actually think terraforming, the theory of it, involves just plopping down plants to produce an atomsphere on a rock that orbits a heat source in the middle of the vacum of space?
[/quote]

No, I don't. I [i]DO[/i] believe that getting people to [i]think about it[/i] will require more dynamic flexibility and less static requirement-filling than what is currently offered in Spore.
Will Wright said, in the 2007 TED demo:

[quote="Will Wright"]But I started getting really interesting in Maria Montessori and her methods, and the way she kinda, the way she went about things, and the way she thought it very valuable for kids to kind of discover these things on their own instead of being taught these things just kind of overtly. And she would design these toys where kids, in playing with these toys, would come to understand these deep principles of life and nature through play. And since they would discover those things, it really stuck with them so much more. And also they would experience their own failures, there was a failure-based aspect to learning there; it was very important.
"And so the games I do I think of really as modern Montessori toys. And I really kind of want them to be presented in a way to where kids can kind of explore and discover their own principles.[/quote]

Now how about you go right ahead and explain to me [i]EXACTLY[/i] how anyone will get that from present-day Spore. [i]THAT'S[/i] the point I'm making, here; if you want to debate to minutia of terraforming and ecology, you're barking up the wrong tree. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40419.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40419.page GMT
They're just playing a different economy game than we are, theirs has a few more options, and the possibility of extreme failure.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40420.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40420.page GMT
OMG! I found him!?!

The one person on the planet that hates Team Fortress 2!

/me wishes there was an achievement for this discovery![/quote]

Yeah and I personally have no idea why anyone likes it...it's is extra ordinarily boring. I have had 10000000x more fun in 2 seconds of spore then I did of 1 hour of TF2....yeah it sucks that bad.[/quote]

2 Seconds into spore you are still watching a video.

You have an odd view of gaming entertainment O.o But hey. Some people liked the SPORE's. We all have our own unique views of the world and what we enjoy. No matter how odd it is to the rest of the people around us at times.
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40424.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40424.page GMT kitchen style spore pack! (give your creations silverwear and a chef hat!)
vacation life spore pack! (give your creations a surf board!)
night life spore pack! (give your creations a pimpin' suit!)
university spore pack! (give your creations a bunch of books!)
cast away spore pack! (give your creations an autographed "wilson" volleyball!)
pets spore pack! (give your creations a puffier tail! wait.. and a leash!)


ahhh the madness[/quote]Hopefully, it won't come to that. Unless this was all just for press, the story is that when EA was pushing those Sims expansion packs out, Will was working on Spore and had no part in those expansion packs. In fact, I remember seeing a presentation he did where he said he got tired of copying and pasting the expansion pack covers simply because of how gross the number was. Clearly, even he doesn't like those kind of expansion packs.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40425.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40425.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40428.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40428.page GMT
how many expansion does the sims 2 have? fifty?

how many of those could have been a patch? 49?
[/quote]

I'm extremely offended.

How could this:

[img]http://dailymarauder.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/sims-ikea.jpg[/img]

Of been in a patch?

That's top quality IKEA goods thank-you-very-much!

Note: Notice how IKEA is so hardcore nobody under 12 should even attempt to play with their products?]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40432.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40432.page GMT kitchen style spore pack! (give your creations silverwear and a chef hat!)
vacation life spore pack! (give your creations a surf board!)
night life spore pack! (give your creations a pimpin' suit!)
university spore pack! (give your creations a bunch of books!)
cast away spore pack! (give your creations an autographed "wilson" volleyball!)
pets spore pack! (give your creations a puffier tail! wait.. and a leash!)


ahhh the madness[/quote]Hopefully, it won't come to that. Unless this was all just for press, the story is that when EA was pushing those Sims expansion packs out, Will was working on Spore and had no part in those expansion packs. In fact, I remember seeing a presentation he did where he said he got tired of copying and pasting the expansion pack covers simply because of how gross the number was. Clearly, even he doesn't like those kind of expansion packs.[/quote]

Yeah I have faith in Will. I think that he didn't really push for those retarded expansions, and that some of the better ones is were he actually put some input. I hope that he puts a lot of input into spore, and that a lot of the EP's are worth getting. I'm just hoping that they really enhance the game in some areas, and that they are out decently quick...i heard the first is coming out in like april next year....that's way to freakin long.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40435.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40435.page GMT Now how about you go right ahead and explain to me [i]EXACTLY[/i] how anyone will get that from present-day Spore.[/quote]Simple, play with the tutorials OFF. They won't tell you how to eat, how to make your creature, what this button does, and so one.

Not only do you learn how to play without the aid of tutorials, but eventually you'll figure out "okay, why did the game say this plant died when I put it on the planet?" instead of listening to your creature jabber about how that happened because you didn't use the atmosphere tool they gave you.

Or, in the creature stage, if you are an herbivore and you try to eat a creature, the player may wonder why it threw up without the obvious connection. After all, some herbivores have been known to evolve a taste for meat if they can produce the right enzymes. But they wouldn't know that most herbivores don't have that special enzyme, and probably don't until they look into the matter themselves.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40444.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40444.page GMT
OMG! I found him!?!

The one person on the planet that hates Team Fortress 2!

/me wishes there was an achievement for this discovery![/quote]

Yeah and I personally have no idea why anyone likes it...it's is extra ordinarily boring. I have had 10000000x more fun in 2 seconds of spore then I did of 1 hour of TF2....yeah it sucks that bad.[/quote]

I'm not a big fan of TF2 in particular, but I do hunger for FPS. My guess is, either you suck at FPS, which is no shame actually, or you really haven't try.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40455.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40455.page GMT Now how about you go right ahead and explain to me [i]EXACTLY[/i] how anyone will get that from present-day Spore.[/quote]Simple, play with the tutorials OFF. They won't tell you how to eat, how to make your creature, what this button does, and so one.

Not only do you learn how to play without the aid of tutorials, but eventually you'll figure out "okay, why did the game say this plant died when I put it on the planet?" instead of listening to your creature jabber about how that happened because you didn't use the atmosphere tool they gave you.

Or, in the creature stage, if you are an herbivore and you try to eat a creature, the player may wonder why it threw up without the obvious connection. After all, some herbivores have been known to evolve a taste for meat if they can produce the right enzymes. But they wouldn't know that most herbivores don't have that special enzyme, and probably don't until they look into the matter themselves.[/quote]

You are playing the game, that you can go from start to finish [i]on hard[/i] without ever touching a keyboard key, that I'm playing right?

Tutorials aren't even of importance. I didn't learn anything I didn't already know from just looking at the dots on the screen or already knowing from past life experiences.

For instance, lava + plant != happy living plant.
OR
Living Organism - energy source == death

These sort of grow on you at a young age.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40456.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40456.page GMT
how many expansion does the sims 2 have? fifty?

how many of those could have been a patch? 49?
[/quote]

I'm extremely offended.

How could this:

[img]http://dailymarauder.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/sims-ikea.jpg[/img]

Of been in a patch?

That's top quality IKEA goods thank-you-very-much!

Note: Notice how IKEA is so hardcore nobody under 12 should even attempt to play with their products?[/quote]

hahahaha

man i forgot the ikea one hehe ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40460.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40460.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40464.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40464.page GMT
how many expansion does the sims 2 have? fifty?

how many of those could have been a patch? 49?
[/quote]

I'm extremely offended.

How could this:

[img]http://dailymarauder.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/sims-ikea.jpg[/img]

Of been in a patch?

That's top quality IKEA goods thank-you-very-much!

Note: Notice how IKEA is so hardcore nobody under 12 should even attempt to play with their products?[/quote]

hahahaha

man i forgot the ikea one hehe [/quote]

I like to remind people of the more important enhancements to the Sims.

I don't think I could survive the initial blight of poverty in the Sims 2 without my IKEA store.

[quote=nunez1212]No...actually i'm quite good at most first person shooters, I just hate TF2...boring[/quote]

Wierd to hear someone call the most well balanced first person shooter in the history of PC gaming boring.

Then again I think I just explained why you are probably calling it boring. .

As for me making that bold statement I'm quite certain the rest of the internet supports that comment . At least the ones that have played TF2 long enough to know anything about it.

Anywho! That's that, no more discussion on TF2 from me, I might end up playing it again .]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40471.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40471.page GMT Now how about you go right ahead and explain to me [i]EXACTLY[/i] how anyone will get that from present-day Spore.[/quote]Simple, play with the tutorials OFF. They won't tell you how to eat, how to make your creature, what this button does, and so one.
[/quote]

That won't do what I'm talking about. At all.

I'm talking about learning deep, underlying principles about the real world by playing around with a simulation of it. [i]YOU'RE[/i] talking about making the game more difficult by playing it blindly instead of with instructions.
My way...teaches you about scientific principles in a fun, experimental way. Your way...doesn't do squat-all on that front; you just learn about the [i]game's[/i] principles...which aren't the same as the real world, even as a caricature.

When I seed a planet with a plant, it should change the ecology of the planet. More oxygen, less CO2, etc. That will have an effect on the ambient temperature, the chemical composition of the air and soil nearby. And it should [i]compete[/i] with the surrounding foliage, not to mention hungry animals.
But that's not what Spore does; three of each, one for every temp/cloud density, filling out a checklist...that's all terraforming is, and it teaches nothing, allows for [i]NO[/i] experimentation.

This is [i]NOT[/i] the game Will Wright described to us in demos, nor was this design paradigm explicitly retracted, so our disappointment is fully justified.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40494.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40494.page GMT
I like to remind people of the more important enhancements to the Sims.

I don't think I could survive the initial blight of poverty in the Sims 2 without my IKEA store.[/quote]

ahhhhhh and you get a whole 60! (thats SIXTY) decor items!



omg must reinstall sims 2 to try out that expansion

and to continue my list..

spore seasons pack! (give your creations a coat! with a fluffly pink button near the upper right pocket!...cuz thats the stuff)
spore free time pack! (give your creations a remote control helicopter! ...with lights! AND SOUND (for an extra 5 bucks))
spore open for business pack! (give your creations a phone! with every number key from 0 to 9 and everything!)
spore bon voyage pack! (give your creations a backpack with a smiley face sticker and a zipper that has a keychain that says "I Love Spore York City" with a cute little heart and everything on it)

too many... brain overload.. ah..]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40508.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40508.page GMT Now how about you go right ahead and explain to me [i]EXACTLY[/i] how anyone will get that from present-day Spore.[/quote]Simple, play with the tutorials OFF. They won't tell you how to eat, how to make your creature, what this button does, and so one.
[/quote]

That won't do what I'm talking about. At all.

I'm talking about learning deep, underlying principles about the real world by playing around with a simulation of it. [i]YOU'RE[/i] talking about making the game more difficult by playing it blindly instead of with instructions.
My way...teaches you about scientific principles in a fun, experimental way. Your way...doesn't do squat-all on that front; you just learn about the [i]game's[/i] principles...which aren't the same as the real world, even as a caricature.

When I seed a planet with a plant, it should change the ecology of the planet. More oxygen, less CO2, etc. That will have an effect on the ambient temperature, the chemical composition of the air and soil nearby. And it should [i]compete[/i] with the surrounding foliage, not to mention hungry animals.
But that's not what Spore does; three of each, one for every temp/cloud density, filling out a checklist...that's all terraforming is, and it teaches nothing, allows for [i]NO[/i] experimentation.

This is [i]NOT[/i] the game Will Wright described to us in demos, nor was this design paradigm explicitly retracted, so our disappointment is fully justified.[/quote]

You said paradigm and I like that word. So you get 5 stars.

I do find it funny that a thousand things could of been added to even visually tell you neat stuff that was going on with your planet that would of done nothing to hinder the 'casual' crowd and they were not.

It's odd when people correlate learning or information with 'hardcore'.

Sort of like when people call educated individuals 'elitist'. Really? Only the elite know anything? Shouldn't that be the goal of all living beings?

I suppose I'm just too much of a dreamer on that respect.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40511.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40511.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40518.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40518.page GMT
I'm bitter because of its relationship to the promises; I'm disappointed because, taken on its own merits, Spore is pretty repetitive and boring...not a lot there to do besides colonize, kill, and occasionally create. It seems there ought to be more to it than that.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40525.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40525.page GMT
I'm actually disappointed in the game as a game.

There are a bunch of issues that were addressed by other games years ago that are showing their head here. It's that whole history repeating itself deal.

Plus I would say that no game that costs 50 dollars should be completed with only the mouse. I know that sounds like a bold blanket statement but it feels to me that for 50 dollars I should at least have a reason to touch my keyboard...I mean ... it lights up .]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40530.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40530.page GMT
I'm actually disappointed in the game as a game.

There are a bunch of issues that were addressed by other games years ago that are showing their head here. It's that whole history repeating itself deal.

Plus I would say that no game that costs 50 dollars should be completed with only the mouse. I know that sounds like a bold blanket statement but it feels to me that for 50 dollars I should at least have a reason to touch my keyboard...I mean ... it lights up .[/quote]

u mean you dont use the WASD keys? ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40539.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40539.page GMT
I'm actually disappointed in the game as a game.

There are a bunch of issues that were addressed by other games years ago that are showing their head here. It's that whole history repeating itself deal.

Plus I would say that no game that costs 50 dollars should be completed with only the mouse. I know that sounds like a bold blanket statement but it feels to me that for 50 dollars I should at least have a reason to touch my keyboard...I mean ... it lights up .[/quote]

u mean you dont use the WASD keys? [/quote]

'very' occasionally. I find that just clicking on the map is 99% faster.

The only time the keyboard is even handy is when I'm feeling really wild and want to actually pick up the stuff that is on the ground in space stage.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40544.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40544.page GMT The tilde key (left of the 1) is essential (it's the pause key).

Also the 1234 keys are very convenient in creature combat and music games.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40556.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40556.page GMT .[/quote]

But what about that demographic of people who can't afford keyboards? You're just selfish.

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40557.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40557.page GMT The tilde key (left of the 1) is essential (it's the pause key).

Also the 1234 keys are very convenient in creature combat and music games.[/quote]

I've never had the need to pause.

However you can easily manage combat (since the music game is subpar compared to the one on the DS I don't do it anymore) without the keyboard.

So yes, if you want to talk about the 10 or so fights during the creature stage before advancing you 'might' have to press the 1 and 3 keys a few times (yes because charging and spitting aren't really worth my time ;p).]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40571.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40571.page GMT My way...teaches you about scientific principles in a fun, experimental way. Your way...doesn't do squat-all on that front; you just learn about the [i]game's[/i] principles...which aren't the same as the real world, even as a caricature.

When I seed a planet with a plant, it should change the ecology of the planet. More oxygen, less CO2, etc. That will have an effect on the ambient temperature, the chemical composition of the air and soil nearby. And it should [i]compete[/i] with the surrounding foliage, not to mention hungry animals.
But that's not what Spore does; three of each, one for every temp/cloud density, filling out a checklist...that's all terraforming is, and it teaches nothing, allows for [i]NO[/i] experimentation.[/quote]

SimEarth was simple enough to be ported to the SNES, but its principles are still too complicated for these chowderheads. I don't think they can grasp anything more complex than Spore's "fill in the blanks" system.

"Spore done teached me that the at-mus-fear is composed of two elemunts: hot and thick. Nothin can survive unless you gots enough hot and enough thick, and if you don't gots enough hot or thick things gonna die."]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40608.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40608.page GMT
The game has been fun so far, but i'm nearing the end of it's playability. It needs a lot more, and I expected a lot more. It's not worth what I paid for it atm, hopefully that will change.

And I would be only prepared to pay for one expansion, the whole mass amounts of expansions the EA/Maxis released with Sims 2 was just ridiculous, lucky I wasn't a fan of that game.


Also so far the patching for spore has been the MOST WORSE PATCHING EVER. Not in content, but in how the patch is applied.

Install EADM, but the game doesn't use EADM, instead it has to download in-game (wtf?) which prevents me from playing the game and requires spore to run in the background. Then has to exit from the game to install it, a most terrible install process which gives no indication of progress, and constantly slowing down my computer preventing me from doing other stuff, like typing this post.

Very annoying.

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40629.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40629.page GMT ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40632.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40632.page GMT The tilde key (left of the 1) is essential (it's the pause key).

Also the 1234 keys are very convenient in creature combat and music games.[/quote]

I used it once when I had to go to the bathroom... ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40637.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40637.page GMT SimEarth was simple enough to be ported to the SNES, but its principles are still too complicated for these chowderheads. I don't think they can grasp anything more complex than Spore's "fill in the blanks" system.

"Spore done teached me that the at-mus-fear is composed of two elemunts: hot and thick. Nothin can survive unless you gots enough hot and enough thick, and if you don't gots enough hot or thick things gonna die."[/quote]

Yes, well, this is my point; WW says--[i]now[/i]--that Spore is meant to appeal to the general masses. But frankly, it was the nerds, geeks, and eggheads who were [i]REALLY[/i] looking forward to this game, not a bunch of mouth-breathing yokels.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40643.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40643.page GMT SimEarth was simple enough to be ported to the SNES, but its principles are still too complicated for these chowderheads. I don't think they can grasp anything more complex than Spore's "fill in the blanks" system.

"Spore done teached me that the at-mus-fear is composed of two elemunts: hot and thick. Nothin can survive unless you gots enough hot and enough thick, and if you don't gots enough hot or thick things gonna die."[/quote]

Yes, well, this is my point; WW says--[i]now[/i]--that Spore is meant to appeal to the general masses. But frankly, it was the nerds, geeks, and eggheads who were [i]REALLY[/i] looking forward to this game, not a bunch of mouth-breathing yokels.[/quote]

Ironically, the title you are bestowed with at 500 posts on these forums is.... MouthBreather.

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40654.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40654.page GMT SimEarth was simple enough to be ported to the SNES, but its principles are still too complicated for these chowderheads. I don't think they can grasp anything more complex than Spore's "fill in the blanks" system.

"Spore done teached me that the at-mus-fear is composed of two elemunts: hot and thick. Nothin can survive unless you gots enough hot and enough thick, and if you don't gots enough hot or thick things gonna die."[/quote]

Yes, well, this is my point; WW says--[i]now[/i]--that Spore is meant to appeal to the general masses. But frankly, it was the nerds, geeks, and eggheads who were [i]REALLY[/i] looking forward to this game, not a bunch of mouth-breathing yokels.[/quote]

Exactly. Describing it as "Sim Everything" implies that it would contain at least [i]some[/i] of the principles from his earlier games. Those games were educational. Terraforming in SimEarth got me thinking about the composition of our atmosphere, how we might terraform other planets, and what the different gases in our atmosphere do. Spore challenges me to ask myself the difficult question, "What is the opposite of hot? Is it thick, thin, or cold?"]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40662.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40662.page GMT
Sorry to anti-expansionist.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40673.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40673.page GMT SCREW ALL THE PEOPLE WHO SAY SID MEYER IS THE BEST. GO BUNGIE, MY UNCLE IS A GRAPHICS DESIGNER THERE ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40680.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40680.page GMT
Don't get me wrong though. I like the game. But it definitely needs a whole lot more to make me be still playing it 2 or 3 months from now.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40683.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40683.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40760.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40760.page GMT
To each their own. Regardless of your taste for the game, you have to comment VALVe for releasing all that free content and maps for a game even a year after its release. That's rather commendable.

Don't think EA will ever that that kind of integrity.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40788.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40788.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40811.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40811.page GMT
Don't get me wrong though. I like the game. But it definitely needs a whole lot more to make me be still playing it 2 or 3 months from now.[/quote]

That's my sentiment. I've basically cut off my dealings with any future EA projects, likely including spore expansions unless people speak of them like the local church speaks of god .]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40830.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40830.page GMT Hmm dont ever ever EVER forget that Will dropped tools near the tribes men and they started interacting with it.
If u dont understand the implications of this , we have no basis for discusion.
Also the focal point of the game was U guiding a species.
Focal point of todays game U ARE the species.
[/quote]

Umm Im fairly certain I can do that in Tribal now, nothing (aside from the Water Stage,
the change in art style, and the ability to teach your creatures new moves) has been
left out. So what its been 3 years ideas change! The "Spore '05" game was nothing but some unplayable graphics,
most of what is seen in that demo was really impossible in that game.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40865.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40865.page GMT Hmm dont ever ever EVER forget that Will dropped tools near the tribes men and they started interacting with it.
If u dont understand the implications of this , we have no basis for discusion.
Also the focal point of the game was U guiding a species.
Focal point of todays game U ARE the species.
[/quote]

Umm Im fairly certain I can do that in Tribal now, nothing (aside from the Water Stage,
the change in art style, and the ability to teach your creatures new moves) has been
left out. So what its been 3 years ideas change! The "Spore '05" game was nothing but some unplayable graphics,
most of what is seen in that demo was really impossible in that game.[/quote]

The creatures don't automatically interact with anything. You have to hold your creatures hand through the entire ordeal. I'd like some feeling that my creature is at least smart enough not to starve to death if I grab a drink from the fridge.

I still never hear anyone point out what about the demo was kept? I hear a lot of "nothing was taken out" but not what was kept, without making broad blanket statements like: "Your creature evolves, you get tools, and there is space!"

I mean...he has survived 3 billion years after all.

The game just feels less alive than the demos always did. I feel more like an incredibly powerful insignificant spec in a static environment that only changes within the cone of my vision. It's not an issue of a sound in a forest being unheard, its a forest that stands dormant unless I approach.

They could of at least had text code running like your average mud. I mean I've been playing more dynamic text based games for a decade now . For free.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40870.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40870.page GMT Hmm dont ever ever EVER forget that Will dropped tools near the tribes men and they started interacting with it.
If u dont understand the implications of this , we have no basis for discusion.
Also the focal point of the game was U guiding a species.
Focal point of todays game U ARE the species.
[/quote]

Umm Im fairly certain I can do that in Tribal now, nothing (aside from the Water Stage,
the change in art style, and the ability to teach your creatures new moves) has been
left out. So what its been 3 years ideas change! The "Spore '05" game was nothing but some unplayable graphics,
most of what is seen in that demo was really impossible in that game.[/quote]

how is this an argument,

i keep hearing that " the 2005 demo was nothing but a graphic" or it might as well be a video.

thats not what a tech demo is, a tech demo is a demonstration of the technoligy you have developed.

while the game its self may have not existed, i know very few people who promous the world, or in this case the galaxy. and deliver %$#@

the fact that it was PLANED, very diffrent then unplayable. is not an excuse for not delivering what WAS promased, or atleast corecting the fans.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40876.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40876.page GMT The creatures don't automatically interact with anything. You have to hold your creatures hand through the entire ordeal. I'd like some feeling that my creature is at least smart enough not to starve to death if I grab a drink from the fridge.

I still never hear anyone point out what about the demo was kept? I hear a lot of "nothing was taken out" but not what was kept, without making broad blanket statements like: "Your creature evolves, you get tools, and there is space!"

I mean...he has survived 3 billion years after all.

The game just feels less alive than the demos always did. I feel more like an incredibly powerful insignificant spec in a static environment that only changes within the cone of my vision. It's not an issue of a sound in a forest being unheard, its a forest that stands dormant unless I approach.

They could of at least had text code running like your average mud. I mean I've been playing more dynamic text based games for a decade now . For free.[/quote]

I stated that in my post. I guess it really depends on how you spent the years during that game
was being made. When I first saw the demo in 2005 I knew that they wouldn't be able to keep
there promises. I heard the words: make your own creature and go from a cell to space god, and
I spent the next 3 years with my fingers in my ears going lalalalalalalalal to avoid the hype
If you disregard the demo and go out to the broad terms it pretty much is the same stuff. It kept its
promise to me

It's EA by the way the same EA that had 20 billion expansion packs between Sims and Sims 2. There
will be at least 3 expansions between Spore and Spore 2, mark my words.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40897.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40897.page GMT
No I much rather put my stock in the mod community (or maybe Lehman Brothers) then buy an expansion since they are much more likely to add new game play dynamics and not to mention they are free.[/quote]

How the hell would the game be the same if it were an expansion...]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40903.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40903.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40934.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40934.page GMT
Spore will become the game shown in 2005, with all kinds of polish, after the consumer has footed the bill. Not me. Not going to happen.

I would pay up to 80 bucks for a great game, but not for this unfinished piece of work. Maxis let EA rip their masterpiece of a game into little expansion bits, all in the name of greed. Well I for one am done with it. Anyone else?]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40980.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40980.page GMT
No I much rather put my stock in the mod community (or maybe Lehman Brothers) then buy an expansion since they are much more likely to add new game play dynamics and not to mention they are free.[/quote]

How the hell would the game be the same if it were an expansion...[/quote]

You haven't played the Sims 2 have you? There were a few times where I'd play at a friends house and not notice that she had a few of the expansions on. Because my raw vanilla copy of the Sims 2 felt exactly the same ;p.
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40985.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/40985.page GMT i've spend about 150 hours, earned 68 badges, got 11 races in all kinds of forms and personalities from cell to space and for the first in months a warning about my bandwith limitation.... i started experimenting with this "toy" (just like Will Wright said) and played 2 weeks which was enough to lose my fascination.

afterwards i've burried my copy into the depths of my big gaming box because it turns out to be an all to limited toy. no matter what you create from cola bottle to hyperdetailed insect you get more of the same without a real meaning because the actions and AI are just to simple and the options to few, 2 following minigames allready make you lose contact with your creation and are only just developed enough to fill up spare time and then there's the space stage. well since you can't be everywhere at the same time you seem to be some nationslave rather than the almighty tourist/planetsculptor/galactic friend/warlord or whatever your goal was... lost in space could always have been the title. if not lost all together you lost all contact with whatever you created but maybe you can catch a glimpse of your nation when you abduct or kill some of its members. whatever you did starting as a cell influences the rest ... i get it. no need to slap it in my face over and over again because it leads nowhere unless you want an endless fight with the grox.

but i guess this topic started as an announcement for expansions? no surpise from the commercial Will Wright there. reading what he declares about his novel approach to use input from endusers i'll repy he's just to late all together for me. i'm sorry to say i often felt like some beta tester playing with his toy. (did any regular gamer play with it before the release???
the only way i could even think about buying an expansion was if this provided some meaningfull gameplay at least, just like a child would use even a simple cardboard box meaningfull in his gameplay or in Spore want his pokemon spaceship and creature to function meaningfull. just some barbie dance doesn't cut it for me to be interesting for long, no matter how cute.
if only the AI and in game options were as good as the visuals from the creators ... it would be the best game ever. it might as well be part of a marketing decision and maybe we'll discover the full game was repacked in expansions. well i won't take part in that but i'm sure others would.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41030.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41030.page GMT
Might as well call me a ranter too, since I am ranting about ranters.

And just about all the posts that people made that were in favor of expansions get a one star rating. Thanks guys...]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41037.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41037.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41048.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41048.page GMT
Whoop, forgot the Shield of Sarcasm again. Sorry 'bout that...

I haven't read through the thread, but I already know that it's 3/4 or more full of little kids whining about a business trying to make money....]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41053.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41053.page GMT
Whoop, forgot the Shield of Sarcasm again. Sorry 'bout that...

I haven't read through the thread, but I already know that it's 3/4 or more full of little kids whining about a business trying to make money....[/quote]

I hate how people act like all MAXIS games are made for nothing but 100 expansions.

Sim City 4 was bomb as hell when it first came out and I in no way felt obligated to get the expansion just so that I could actually not cry when I looked at my purchase.

Rush hour was a pleasant addition to the entire experience.

Plus I had the infinite power of the mod community, has anyone here ever used the NAT mod for Sim City 4? As city sims go it'll blow your SPORE off.

The only thing that'll save SPORE is if they make it as mod-able as Sim City 4 was ;p. That way when expansions come out it won't be a purchase to make your game worth playing it'll be a purchase for adding to the current endless entertainment ;p.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41067.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41067.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41081.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41081.page GMT
I too was expecting them to leverage a lot more classic Maxis game-play concepts and was hoping to experience much more SIMS/SIMCITY/SIMEARTH, etc, etc. concepts in SPORE.

Perhaps these expansions may try and do that.

Perhaps 'horizontal' expansions does mean aspects of SIMCITY, SIMS/SIMS2 or any kind of Maxis SIM game-play can be added to SPORE and that aspects of SPORE can be added into the next (crosses fingers) SIM CITY and SIMS3.
-
Attempts were made to allow users of SIMCITY4 and SIM2 to share 'some' functionality...but it was a very unexciting...just as RUSH HOUR was (especially after experiencing the glory of expansions like STREETS Of SIM CITY. How they ever went 'backwards' is beyond me).

Something has been lost to be sure and it has been very hard to swallow titles like SOCIETIES and the PS2/Wii SIM games...and now 'Kingdoms'.

Somehow CUTE and 'dumbed down' seems to be replacing [b]everything[/b] instead of just adding some cuteness to what was already great. (SIM Town was cute yet it still managed to be fun and educational).

I want to always believe in W.W. and Maxis and that they can and will continue to do mind blowing things.

Good luck and thank you.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41685.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41685.page GMT
This is all it comes down to at the end of the day.

I'm sure Maxis wanted to make a much better game than we have now, but it's their EA masters who wanted to dumb it down and sell it off to the masses in little bits.

But then again I think of that interview with Will Wright admitting to dumbing it down and selling out and I start to wonder who's to blame..]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41826.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41826.page GMT
>_<]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41836.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/41836.page GMT
First, I read through the first 3 pages of this thread... and skipped the rest.

I love the creature stage of the game, and wish it extended into a more Sim like experience (someone stole my Sims 2 cd years ago and I never have gotten around to buying it again.

Depending on what is actually in the expansion pack dictates my decision on whether to buy it. Period.

I also think the Maxis way of doing expansion packs is a good idea as far as marketing goes. I see all the extra stuff for the Sims/2 and it keeps the game fresh and noticable in the store.

On the other hand, I play an online game called Istaria (sortof like WoW, but you can play a dragon), which has quite a number of mods by players (myself included) and it gets regular updates from the developers.

That system works for them, and expansion packs are part of Maxis games. The fact that there are 12 pages of what is likely ranting/arguing is a bit much, considering this is a Maxis game, which to me, equals expansion packs.

If the game isn't exactly what you wanted, keep in mind the man hours that go into projects such as these; they can't work on these games forever without releasing them and gaining profits. I totally understand why the idea of expansion packs is used for these game.

(I've yet to have caffeine this morning, so hopefully that made some sense XD)]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42042.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42042.page GMT
This is exactly what I was afraid of...[/quote]This!]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42055.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42055.page GMT
What's the NAT mod? I've been playing SC4 right out of the box (Deluxe Edition, so I have Rush Hour) and haven't looked into mods very much. Googling it didn't come up with anything.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42065.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42065.page GMT i've spend about 150 hours, earned 68 badges, got 11 races in all kinds of forms and personalities from cell to space and for the first in months a warning about my bandwith limitation.... i started experimenting with this "toy" (just like Will Wright said) and played 2 weeks which was enough to lose my fascination.

afterwards i've burried my copy into the depths of my big gaming box because it turns out to be an all to limited toy. no matter what you create from cola bottle to hyperdetailed insect you get more of the same without a real meaning because the actions and AI are just to simple and the options to few, 2 following minigames allready make you lose contact with your creation and are only just developed enough to fill up spare time and then there's the space stage. well since you can't be everywhere at the same time you seem to be some nationslave rather than the almighty tourist/planetsculptor/galactic friend/warlord or whatever your goal was... lost in space could always have been the title. if not lost all together you lost all contact with whatever you created but maybe you can catch a glimpse of your nation when you abduct or kill some of its members. whatever you did starting as a cell influences the rest ... i get it. no need to slap it in my face over and over again because it leads nowhere unless you want an endless fight with the grox.

but i guess this topic started as an announcement for expansions? no surpise from the commercial Will Wright there. reading what he declares about his novel approach to use input from endusers i'll repy he's just to late all together for me. i'm sorry to say i often felt like some beta tester playing with his toy. (did any regular gamer play with it before the release???
the only way i could even think about buying an expansion was if this provided some meaningfull gameplay at least, just like a child would use even a simple cardboard box meaningfull in his gameplay or in Spore want his pokemon spaceship and creature to function meaningfull. just some barbie dance doesn't cut it for me to be interesting for long, no matter how cute.
if only the AI and in game options were as good as the visuals from the creators ... it would be the best game ever. it might as well be part of a marketing decision and maybe we'll discover the full game was repacked in expansions. well i won't take part in that but i'm sure others would.[/quote]

150 hours, what more did you really expect for your money? Compared to most games, such as Half Life 2 or Bioshock you certainlly got alot of playtime out of Spore don't you think?]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42096.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42096.page GMT
Well, it's not that it's news. It just feels like that it's a problem if 2 weeks after a "groundbreaking" game is released that there is talk about expansions. And honestly, it feels like expansions are -necessary- to make this game have more value than 2 weeks of mild entertainment.

The fact that the core game is so weak and NEEDS expansions they we will be charged for is what is surprising, SPECIALLY from someone like Will Wright.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42131.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42131.page GMT
The old spore cellular stage...
[img]http://ldopa.net/wp-content/uploads/spore_amoeba.thumbnail.jpg[/img]


Now...
[img]http://z.about.com/d/compsimgames/1/0/H/5/2/spore_cell_stage_2_bmp_jpgc.jpg[/img]

That's sadder than yarn will ever be. [/quote]
I like the 2008 look better. It looks more fun.

What, is that the wrong opinion?]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42179.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42179.page GMT I like the 2008 look better. It looks more fun.

What, is that the wrong opinion?[/quote]

No, i agree with you that the 2008 version looks aesthetically more pleasing. Honestly I never really had a gripe about the looks of this game. Sure it's cutesy but for some reason it works.

My biggest complaint is the general tediousness of stages 2-4. The overly simplistic simon-says approach really doesn't appeal to me, and can make the gamepainful going from cell to space. And the possible notion that I might have to purchase a future expansion to augment the general gameplay of the core game just leaves me sour. Sure it's making an assumption on what they have planned for future enhancements, but I still can't help feeling as if many of these elements were removed either to reach an eventual deadline or pave the way for future expansion.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42202.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42202.page GMT
I don't care how full of features the expansions claim to be, I've been down this road before. Judging from the quality of the core game, I would expect years more of buggy expansions. Okay. I'll go buy something which actually [i]works[/i].]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42250.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42250.page GMT I appreciate that opinion, and I do recognize that the game can be shallow and repetitive (what you describe as tedious), but I still find it tremendously fun and engrossing, though curiously, it's not the kind of game that would have appealed to me 5-years ago. I hated The Sims the first time I played it for many of the same reasons that people dislike Spore, but with less time to play games these day, I find that I have a greater appreciation for so-called "casual" games than I used to, so it sounds to me like you're simply not the intended demographic.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42253.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42253.page GMT Then why'd you buy the game, dummy?[/quote]

Misplaced optimism, obviously; I was hoping that what I was seeing in demos was misleading...and it [i]WAS,[/i] just not in my favor. I was a fool; won't get fooled again.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42261.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42261.page GMT 150 hours, what more did you really expect for your money? Compared to most games, such as Half Life 2 or Bioshock you certainlly got alot of playtime out of Spore don't you think?[/quote]

not really: i'm very selective about my games and i only buy those who offer a lot of variation and replayability. i think i've played the long campaign with all parties in medieval total war II by now for example or i can just start a new game in Civ4 right now because i know it will be tactical variable from whatever i played earlier but it will always be a finished product. a game doesn't have to be really recent for me, just well made and i sometimes rediscover them after years (they don't have DRM !!!).
the only way that will happen with Spore is when i've some creative idea but it would be more like fooling around with it than actually playing in my opinion. sure i knew the risk and this time it failed, no real harm done but it's just average for me.
it would actually have to be a game with more depth before i even consider buying no matter what expansion. i'm not going to fill up my harddrive with just more to dress up and pay the full for just that.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42276.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42276.page GMT
You can expect some new content for X mas , im sure EA will make the traditional Christmas patch , even if it's just adding a alien snowman race or a rogue Santa tribe , or reindeer pirate ships. Spore is a game that is best played in small doses , at night , if you rushed to finish it already then you completley are missing the point of the game , it's not a marathon to run, this game is an adventure , an experience . It's teaching you to think of options , when your first plan does not work, you re-think your actions and try a new plan. I wont argue that the game shown in 2005 was interesting , it sure was, but the Spore retail version has much of merit also.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42325.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42325.page GMT
I can tell you right now *I* am not buying these. Deep gameplay is what was promised initially and then yanked at the last minute. That's known as bait and switch and it's a deceptive business practice.

Also, the game is kind of sicky-sweet for me. I'm getting tired of it.

I'm also not paying any more money to EA until they ditch their DRM policy.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42328.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42328.page GMT
Probably been replied to already, but I haven't finished reading the thread, and most likely bears repeating:

A game shouldn't [i]REQUIRE[/i] expansions to be "good". I bought the Sims/Sims2 expansions because the game was [i]ALREADY[/i] good.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42376.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42376.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42439.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42439.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42524.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42524.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42872.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42872.page GMT
The one that had roaming herds of creatures that automatically ran away from predators.
The one that had large predators roaming around.
The one that didn't have fixed nests.
The one that didn't auto-heal you at every nest of a creature you either befriended or wiped out(which really makes no sense at all.)

The one they said on the site(now removed, I see) that they SAID was the final model they said they implemented in-game.

*******Instead we have:**************

Herbivores never really have to leave their nests. Scripts(most likely) seem to ensure that they have fruit trees literally on the border of their nests(so if you play one, you don't have to either!) The only time things really leave the nests is to socialize.(more on that little bit of stupidity later)

Once in a blue moon you'll see a roaming predator out hunting. One of the few shining moments.

You can freely approach any nests of your own species you want(which, even in E3 2008 Will Wright said was "tricky"). And also approach pretty much any nests of any non-predator you feel like too.

Other non-predator species see fit to do the same to you. Even if you run the most aggressive creature you can, they'll still amble up to your nest, looking to befriend you.

Frankly ALL creatures should act like the rare and epic creatures, sure they have a "home" area, but by and large they wander all over the place. (By "wander all over the place" I mean every time you are at tier1-3 you seem to be running into the bloody things over every hill but at max creature, when you can actually HANDLE one, they're nowhere to be found.)

On the cell stage: Considering you're in the middle of the ocean and not in a lab dish somewhere frankly the green/white background of the old 2005 version doesn't actually make any sense. It WOULD be nice not to run into the exact same cell creatures in every cell stage though.

NOTE: As for the cartoony feel:
Ctrl+Shift+C
Stylefilter -norainbows
Enter.
KTHXBYE.

I'd also like it if EA's big brother program(sorry, patch utility) worked right too and managed to find the game WHEN IT USES THE DEFAULT INSTALL PATH.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42999.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/42999.page GMT
Yes that is all good and dandy, but [u]vertical[/u] expansion should not be sacrificed for [u]horizontal[/u] expansion.

Object Oriented Programming is great, making more games have more customization is great, neglecting a game you already made; using it as a guinea pig for other games, and writing off the complaints with "we knew different game types wouldn't click with everyone' -- not great.

In my opinion, SPORE was their [i]ONE SHOT[/i] to do it right, they might be able to patch it to heck, but this is the one title to make this attempt. The idea of a SPORE 2 or expansions is absurd. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43022.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43022.page GMT [/quote]

Why should we have to pay to fix a broken game?

Spore is like buying a car with no engine, it looks pretty but doesn't do anything. If you actually want to drive the car you buy the engine in a expansion pack.

In every other game you get a fully driveable car out of the box. And when you get an expansion pack, you get stuff like a v8 engine, spoilers or maybe some chrome wheels. It's all stuff that's not necessary for the original car to work, but improves upon the original experience. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43648.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43648.page GMT [/quote]

Why should we have to pay to fix a broken game?

Spore is like buying a car with no engine, it looks pretty but doesn't do anything. If you actually want to drive the car you buy the engine in a expansion pack.

In every other game you get a fully driveable car out of the box. And when you get an expansion pack, you get stuff like a v8 engine, spoilers or maybe some chrome wheels. It's all stuff that's not necessary for the original car to work, but improves upon the original experience. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43653.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43653.page GMT
All these friggin GLITCHES that were INTRODUCED by this patch made this game UNPLAYEABLE. I just watched as the counter on a timed Mission counted to nothing, extincted one creature, and then infected a second one. Now I have 2 colonies under attack by pirates which I can't get to, and another ally having the same problem. And guess what, I CAN"T SEE THE SPORE CREATURES to eradicate the INFECTED ONES. 5 MINUTES have gone by and the problem didn't correct itself. NOW this company is talking about fixing the errors and glitches ONLY with an expansion pack. I think it's time we got together and started a Class Action Lawsuit. We already PAID for the licenses on this software, and now EA and Maxis want us to PAY again. This is bullshit.

I will be filing a complaint on this matter with the BBB first thing in the morning. I will never buy a single product from this company again, and I will be telling every person I know about this along with a few media friends of mine. I've had it.

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43702.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43702.page GMT
All these friggin GLITCHES that were INTRODUCED by this patch made this game UNPLAYEABLE. I just watched as the counter on a timed Mission counted to nothing, extincted one creature, and then infected a second one. Now I have 2 colonies under attack by pirates which I can't get to, and another ally having the same problem. And guess what, I CAN"T SEE THE SPORE CREATURES to eradicate the INFECTED ONES. 5 MINUTES have gone by and the problem didn't correct itself. NOW this company is talking about fixing the errors and glitches ONLY with an expansion pack. I think it's time we got together and started a Class Action Lawsuit. We already PAID for the licenses on this software, and now EA and Maxis want us to PAY again. This is bullshit.

I will be filing a complaint on this matter with the BBB first thing in the morning. I will never buy a single product from this company again, and I will be telling every person I know about this along with a few media friends of mine. I've had it.

[/quote]

You ever tried uninstalling and reinstalling? Meh...sorry...I give all the complicated fixes.

Although a bit of a rebate would be nice .]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43706.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43706.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43707.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43707.page GMT [/quote]

Tell you what, let me scratch your disk, make it completely unreadable, then infect your game with a virus forcing you to wipe it clean. Or better yet, roll back time and make the disk you bought blank. Then tell you after you spent $50 which might have been better spent on GASOLINE and tell you, OH, so SORRY, you want the program itself? I working copy? That'll cost you $29.99 as well extra.

I don't know about this with anyone else, but $80, $50, or even $29.99 might get me to class a few times. And in a time with everybody and company trying to screw us all, it's time to stand up against them and throw their garbage back at them.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43727.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43727.page GMT
I'd say, compared to most games, like the Civilization series or anything made by Sid Meier, or any of Will Wright's previous Sim-titles, 150 hours is nothing. 150 hours may be a lot for a first-person shooter, but for nearly every other genre it's not very much.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43756.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43756.page GMT
I don't understand how you can make up a story with Spore. It just seems like a very linear (herbivore pretty much equal carnivore) game. I had lots of fun making up stories to go along with all the crazy stuff that happened in TS2. But here, everything feels the same. It is fun, but only so much.

As much as I loved TS2, I have never bought an expansion. Paying $20 or more for an [i]expansion[/i] is insane!! If you want to pay $250 for the full game, that's nice, but it is highway robbery for most people.

Why can't Maxis/EA be like VALVE! Someone actually complained about HL2? Without expansions, I've easily gotten a LOT more fun out of the Orange Box, which included HL2 for $50. Valve supports these titles FOR FREE! It is amazing how much content they have added to Team Fortress 2, and TF2 was a FULL GAME when it was released. Oh, and please see Valve for DRM that isn't horrific (Steam).

SPORE doesn't get a pass since it took so long to get to this state. They need to make some major improvements for free before doing expansions.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43832.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43832.page GMT
I think that's a great idea. I'm sick of deceptive marketing practices in the software industry. We need a nationwide system like California has, where it's the law that you can return software.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43981.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/43981.page GMT
Of course I wished for more, of course I hoped it would have a "living ecosystem", emerging complexity. more depth and all the stuff that you feel is missing (minus aquatic stage, wasn't realy interested in that).

But the core features that got ME hooked back in 2005 are still there: making (almost) any creatures I want, sharing them with everyone else and being able to interact with them. (I'd love to have more possibilities, but hey, they'll come in an expansion).

and I do think I got my moneys worth out of the game. Basically, I paid the same 80 CHF for Half Life as I spent for Spore... and I got bored by it in about 20 min....

I paid about the same amount for COD 4 and I was literally trough with the game after 10 hours or so... game finished, done all missions, seen everything.... no replayability.

The same goes (speaking for ME and only for ME) for all FPS....... after I did the first couple of missions, I just got bored....

I have played Spore for more then 50 hours by now, and still find it entertaining.... OK, I mostly look at stuff the other players made and fiddling with the editors and stuff, not trying to "win" the game in any way.... probably this'll be over in a few days, and I'll go back to something else... or buy something new.

Of course there are games like the Sims 2, Civ or Europa Universalis which I spent countless (literally, don't know how much, but probably several weeks actual playtime) which I got more out of.

In a nutshell:

With an avarage FPS I'll pay about 20-50 CHF per hour of "fun" or about 5-10 CHF per hour of actual game time.

With Sims, Civ or EU, even counting all expansions and stuff I did buy, I pay about 1 ct or less per hour of entertainment.

Spore is somewhere in the middle, with about 1 CHF per hour of "fun" and since I will fiddle some more with the editors and stuff at some future date, about 50 ct per hour actual game time.

So, I'd consider the 80 CHF money well spent.

If an expansion comes out, at the usual 35 to 45 CHF, I'll buy it too. And if it keeps me entertained for a week end, and lets me do some more stuff with my already existing creatures, the money will also be well spent.....


BTW: A question for those who go on about Valve, and their free maps....

you DID notice there are already more maps (planets) included in Spore as is then valve ever added at a later date?

You do notice that more free creatures (comparable to "skins") are shared per day than you got from Valve in all the time since release?

You do notice that the game play of an FPS basically consists in running around and killing things? In Spore you at least have two choices (which mostly play the same), and the game play does change once in a wile.
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45565.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45565.page GMT
Some people have been saying "Oh well im not paying to fix a broken game. The games broke im not paying to fix it"

What? You dont have to pay for patches those are free. Patches are ment to patch the game, AKA fix it. ANd please dont tell me "Well the last patch broke my game" i know about that, and thats not part of my point.

What you will be paying for are the "expansions" whcih "expand" the gameplay. They are not ment for fixing the game.


please get it right

/rant]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45582.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45582.page GMT
I think that's a great idea. I'm sick of deceptive marketing practices in the software industry. We need a nationwide system like California has, where it's the law that you can return software.[/quote]

IF you go to the movies, and you didn't enjoy it, would you sue the cinema and/or the studio?
If you bought a CD you didn't like, would you sue the band or the record label?
If you bought a book, which you thought boring, would you sue the author or publisher?

How is a computer game any different?

I mean, I am sorry you think the game sucks... but since it seems pleasant enough to (in my experience) most buyers, I don't see any possibility to "sue" or "Class Action" them...

If "I didn't enjoy a game" or "based on a Tech Demo from 3 years ago, I imagined the game would be diffrent" ever becomes reason enough to sue the manufacturer, I forsee a rapid end to the entertainment industry....

This'll end up in stuff like "I saw a teaser to an upcoming movie, which I realy loved. Then I was bored by the actual movie. Let's sue the studio and force them to refund me the ticket or make the movie I hoped they would make based on the teaser"... and no studio would ever put out anything anymore, since they WILL get sued by some one who expected something different...]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45620.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45620.page GMT ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45631.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45631.page GMT
I think that's a great idea. I'm sick of deceptive marketing practices in the software industry. We need a nationwide system like California has, where it's the law that you can return software.[/quote]

IF you go to the movies, and you didn't enjoy it, would you sue the cinema and/or the studio?
If you bought a CD you didn't like, would you sue the band or the record label?
If you bought a book, which you thought boring, would you sue the author or publisher?

How is a computer game any different?

I mean, I am sorry you think the game sucks... but since it seems pleasant enough to (in my experience) most buyers, I don't see any possibility to "sue" or "Class Action" them...

If "I didn't enjoy a game" or "based on a Tech Demo from 3 years ago, I imagined the game would be diffrent" ever becomes reason enough to sue the manufacturer, I forsee a rapid end to the entertainment industry....

This'll end up in stuff like "I saw a teaser to an upcoming movie, which I realy loved. Then I was bored by the actual movie. Let's sue the studio and force them to refund me the ticket or make the movie I hoped they would make based on the teaser"... and no studio would ever put out anything anymore, since they WILL get sued by some one who expected something different...[/quote]i agree with you

]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45635.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45635.page GMT
I think that's a great idea. I'm sick of deceptive marketing practices in the software industry. We need a nationwide system like California has, where it's the law that you can return software.[/quote]

IF you go to the movies, and you didn't enjoy it, would you sue the cinema and/or the studio?
If you bought a CD you didn't like, would you sue the band or the record label?
If you bought a book, which you thought boring, would you sue the author or publisher?

How is a computer game any different?

I mean, I am sorry you think the game sucks... but since it seems pleasant enough to (in my experience) most buyers, I don't see any possibility to "sue" or "Class Action" them...

If "I didn't enjoy a game" or "based on a Tech Demo from 3 years ago, I imagined the game would be diffrent" ever becomes reason enough to sue the manufacturer, I forsee a rapid end to the entertainment industry....

This'll end up in stuff like "I saw a teaser to an upcoming movie, which I realy loved. Then I was bored by the actual movie. Let's sue the studio and force them to refund me the ticket or make the movie I hoped they would make based on the teaser"... and no studio would ever put out anything anymore, since they WILL get sued by some one who expected something different...[/quote]

I have to say I agree wholeheartedly with halbwolf on this one.
I consider the game to maybe be not what I'm expecting but really guys.
Are you so poor you'd sue over a wasted $50?
C'mon the game is what we got and it's not like they promised us anything else.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45643.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45643.page GMT
I think that's a great idea. I'm sick of deceptive marketing practices in the software industry. We need a nationwide system like California has, where it's the law that you can return software.[/quote]

IF you go to the movies, and you didn't enjoy it, would you sue the cinema and/or the studio?
If you bought a CD you didn't like, would you sue the band or the record label?
If you bought a book, which you thought boring, would you sue the author or publisher?

How is a computer game any different?

I mean, I am sorry you think the game sucks... but since it seems pleasant enough to (in my experience) most buyers, I don't see any possibility to "sue" or "Class Action" them...

If "I didn't enjoy a game" or "based on a Tech Demo from 3 years ago, I imagined the game would be diffrent" ever becomes reason enough to sue the manufacturer, I forsee a rapid end to the entertainment industry....

This'll end up in stuff like "I saw a teaser to an upcoming movie, which I realy loved. Then I was bored by the actual movie. Let's sue the studio and force them to refund me the ticket or make the movie I hoped they would make based on the teaser"... and no studio would ever put out anything anymore, since they WILL get sued by some one who expected something different...[/quote]i agree with you

[/quote]

Agree x 2

Suing? come on...

I mean I understand that you're probably an American who watches too much Judge Judy, but seriously...suing over a game that disappointed you? Grow up.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45644.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45644.page GMT
go read a SPORE book or something]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45649.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45649.page GMT
I think that's a great idea. I'm sick of deceptive marketing practices in the software industry. We need a nationwide system like California has, where it's the law that you can return software.[/quote]

IF you go to the movies, and you didn't enjoy it, would you sue the cinema and/or the studio?
If you bought a CD you didn't like, would you sue the band or the record label?
If you bought a book, which you thought boring, would you sue the author or publisher?

How is a computer game any different?

I mean, I am sorry you think the game sucks... but since it seems pleasant enough to (in my experience) most buyers, I don't see any possibility to "sue" or "Class Action" them...

If "I didn't enjoy a game" or "based on a Tech Demo from 3 years ago, I imagined the game would be diffrent" ever becomes reason enough to sue the manufacturer, I forsee a rapid end to the entertainment industry....

This'll end up in stuff like "I saw a teaser to an upcoming movie, which I realy loved. Then I was bored by the actual movie. Let's sue the studio and force them to refund me the ticket or make the movie I hoped they would make based on the teaser"... and no studio would ever put out anything anymore, since they WILL get sued by some one who expected something different...[/quote]i agree with you

[/quote]

Agree x 2

Suing? come on...

I mean I understand that you're probably an American who watches too much Judge Judy, but seriously...suing over a game that disappointed you? Grow up.[/quote]

Us Americans will sue over anything. seriously its sad.
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45653.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45653.page GMT
I think that's a great idea. I'm sick of deceptive marketing practices in the software industry. We need a nationwide system like California has, where it's the law that you can return software.[/quote]

IF you go to the movies, and you didn't enjoy it, would you sue the cinema and/or the studio?
If you bought a CD you didn't like, would you sue the band or the record label?
If you bought a book, which you thought boring, would you sue the author or publisher?

How is a computer game any different?

I mean, I am sorry you think the game sucks... but since it seems pleasant enough to (in my experience) most buyers, I don't see any possibility to "sue" or "Class Action" them...

If "I didn't enjoy a game" or "based on a Tech Demo from 3 years ago, I imagined the game would be diffrent" ever becomes reason enough to sue the manufacturer, I forsee a rapid end to the entertainment industry....

This'll end up in stuff like "I saw a teaser to an upcoming movie, which I realy loved. Then I was bored by the actual movie. Let's sue the studio and force them to refund me the ticket or make the movie I hoped they would make based on the teaser"... and no studio would ever put out anything anymore, since they WILL get sued by some one who expected something different...[/quote]i agree with you

[/quote]

Agree x 2

Suing? come on...

I mean I understand that you're probably an American who watches too much Judge Judy, but seriously...suing over a game that disappointed you? Grow up.[/quote]

Us Americans will sue over anything. seriously its sad.
[/quote]

And sadly sir, we Canadians are following suit (pun fully intended). It's not quite as bad as it is down there (spent 2 years in LA, New York, and Miami), but people are looking for the free ride up here as well.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45658.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45658.page GMT
and im serious when i say "Makes a living"

becuase that what his company does. He just goes around find reasons to sue people.

I hate him]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45667.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45667.page GMT It's not like we were promised the game to end all other games.
We got what we spent our money on.
This game has revolutionized how we look at games of this potential.
What Will Wright has done is what others had only dreamed of.
You who say your bored after 150+ hours are insane.
Many games won't get you NEAR that much fun time
i just don't get it]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45674.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45674.page GMT It's not like we were promised the game to end all other games.
We got what we spent our money on.
This game has revolutionized how we look at games of this potential.
What Will Wright has done is what others had only dreamed of.
You who say your bored after 150+ hours are insane.
Many games won't get you NEAR that much fun time
i just don't get it[/quote]lol there is nothing wrong with the game. People are disapointed becuase they wanted something different for some reason. (lame tech demo)]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45683.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45683.page GMT It's not like we were promised the game to end all other games.
We got what we spent our money on.
This game has revolutionized how we look at games of this potential.
What Will Wright has done is what others had only dreamed of.
You who say your bored after 150+ hours are insane.
Many games won't get you NEAR that much fun time
i just don't get it[/quote]lol there is nothing wrong with the game. People are disapointed becuase they wanted something different for some reason. (lame tech demo)[/quote]Or they don't like the EADM or the DRM that came with it...

Or they find the game too frustrating because of the number of bugs and glitches, of which I've run into some of the more common ones now...

Or they just can't channel their anger somewhere else. For example, when I realized that I am suffering from a patch-related bug that doesn't allow me to take the social path in Tribal, I just loaded my Zealot Space game and blew up a neighboring planet to clam myself down and remind me why I like to play the game.

Too bad I can't blow up the Wildlife Sanctuary I found from a deleted game when I found that star system, but at least I got to blow up that deleted game's home planet. And as far as I'm concerned, that pretty much means the game is officially deleted. Whatever the computer wants to do with the colonies from that game is fair game as far as I'm concerned.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45719.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45719.page GMT
As much as I don't like the direction they've taken this game and indeed all their games, it was MY decision to buy the game and I made it carefully. There is no one else to blame, and any literate person should have known that they were gonna stick with their profit-centric expansion-based model. This is EA after all, where have you been in a cave? Ever heard of Madden, Need for Speed, do I have to list every EA game? Every gamer should be aware of EA's money making strategy by now, and it was a risk I was willing to take.

That said, I will have to make the same careful decision about the expansion pack, only now with more data about what I can realistically expect. It will be a hard choice, because more and more I realize I hate the dumbing down of games. It is punishing the long-time faithful and hard-core gamers who have created this industry, in order to please "casuals". I think Maxis needs to remember the famous saying that when you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one.

What they should have done was make a proper Simcity 5. If they want to make it simpler do some work to simplify the interface and have the difficulty slider control how much micromanaging you have to do. They should have done the same thing with Spore so that the tribal and civ (and to a lesser extent space) stages were actually interesting. Or made it so that you could tie the city stage of a spore game to a SimCity game. That would have mitigated somewhat the travesty of the tribal and civ stages being too short, too simple, and basically cinematic cutscenes before the meat of the game - the space stage.

tl;dr summary: We all knew Maxis would start selling $30 expansions as soon as possible. Make your own choice about it and don't blame anyone else for that choice.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45860.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45860.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45894.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45894.page GMT
Whats not hardcore about spending 5 hours on that perfect creature??]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45904.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45904.page GMT
Whats not hardcore about spending 5 hours on that perfect creature??[/quote]amen brother]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45905.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45905.page GMT
i knew from the name spore owuldnt be a hardcore gamers game. I like it.

If i want some hardcore action ill just pop in my gears of war disk and fight aliens. If i want to be an alien ill play spore.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45907.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45907.page GMT
Whats not hardcore about spending 5 hours on that perfect creature??[/quote]But that is precisely the contradiction of Spore. The type of person who is going to get much out of Spore is the kind that is willing to put in that kind of investment. In which case he's not playing "casually." But the game then gives you very little of any lasting substance to do with those things you've lovingly crafted.

The people that Spore is actually most suited for are therefore the ones that experience the highest degree of dissatisfaction and purposelessness with the game, because there is simply a real lack of engaging gameplay uses to put your creations to.

The expansions-heavy model of game design being pursued here requires a long-term, loyal fan base, not just a bunch of "casual" people who will be temporarily titillated by the shiny appearances of Spore and then will move on.

I think they are going to have to face the results of the contradictions in their approach to this game. Much more substance will be required to sustain this game over the long haul.

Spore has the potential to appeal to casual gamers [i]and[/i] "hardcore" gamers alike, in that it should have a vast range of optional gameplay elements to keep the interested player involved, long-term, in playing with their continuing galaxy--while at the same time being accessible to the more casual player who can just breeze through it, only skimming the surface. There's nothing wrong with that last approach, but it is absolutely essential that they develop the game further, to actually give you that sandbox we keep hearing about. Right now it's more like a pile of sand grains we're forced to count, repetitively, until exhaustion.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45942.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45942.page GMT
Whats not hardcore about spending 5 hours on that perfect creature??[/quote]But that is precisely the contradiction of Spore. The type of person who is going to get much out of Spore is the kind that is willing to put in that kind of investment. In which case he's not playing "casually." But the game then gives you very little of any lasting substance to do with those things you've lovingly crafted.

The people that Spore is actually most suited for are therefore the ones that experience the highest degree of dissatisfaction and purposelessness with the game, because there is simply a real lack of engaging gameplay uses to put your creations to.

The expansions-heavy model of game design being pursued here requires a long-term, loyal fan base, not just a bunch of "casual" people who will be temporarily titillated by the shiny appearances of Spore and then will move on.

I think they are going to have to face the results of the contradictions in their approach to this game. Much more substance will be required to sustain this game over the long haul.[/quote]


You make some valid points.
I must think about this for a while.
I have a good answer but lack some words. ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45962.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/45962.page GMT
But they won't be getting my dollars. I guess I'm not the target audience they're aiming for. [/quote]


Playing a game like this for a story mode is wrong, be creative ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/53244.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/53244.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/55500.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/55500.page GMT
I support expansions full-heartedly.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/55516.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/55516.page GMT
Not that it really surprises me, seeing how his design decisions were overturned for cutesy/extremely simplified designs... and given the largely mediocre cuistomer feedback... maybe it is better for them to focus on individual aspects of the IDEA of Spore, and develop them more fully. But I don't want them to give up on the game we have now.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/60721.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/60721.page GMT
Am I the only one that remembers him saying he would like to create a Spore Trading Card game that would be played using printed cards based off of your creations in Spore? Complete with Magic-style rule sets?]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/60733.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/60733.page GMT
Am I the only one that remembers him saying he would like to create a Spore Trading Card game that would be played using printed cards based off of your creations in Spore? Complete with Magic-style rule sets?[/quote]

Not at all.
I too remember and look forward to that.
I just hope he doesnt forget to turn on the switches and give us something to sink our teeth in.
Sim everything and all that ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/60769.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/60769.page GMT
I support expansions full-heartedly.[/quote]

i like expansions too however, the game should stand-alone too. you shouldnt feel you need the expansion, just want the expansion. most (well ppl in thiese forums anyway) are just going to feel disappointed with the expansions because it's just going to be teases of something you thought you were going to get the first time around. if before the release they wouldve mention something like, "well alot of stuff had to be taken taken out because it was too much for one game or theres bugs..." or whatever bs then you know what fine but that didnt happened. sims 2 was a stand-alone game, even sims 1. after playing those you didnt feel like you needed to buy the expansions, they felt like added bonuses.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/60819.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/60819.page GMT
I won't be making the same mistake with expansions.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71044.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71044.page GMT ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71062.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71062.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71070.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71070.page GMT
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71398.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71398.page GMT
I support expansions full-heartedly.[/quote]]

The deal with expansions is that they are 'compliments to an already amazing game"

Look at Civilization IV

I never ONCE thought "Goddamn I really wish I had an expansion to make this fun."

Instead one day the expansion hit and I thought "Oh man! That's a great new attachment to what is already a great product."

That feeling is void here, that is why people are ranting.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71401.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71401.page GMT
The deal with expansions is that they are 'compliments to an already amazing game"

Look at Civilization IV

I never ONCE thought "Goddamn I really wish I had an expansion to make this fun."

Instead one day the expansion hit and I thought "Oh man! That's a great new attachment to what is already a great product."

That feeling is void here, that is why people are ranting.[/quote]

See and that is sad but true the core of the isseu.
Yeap, I'm sorry for making small posts.]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71587.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71587.page GMT ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71626.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71626.page GMT
Trouble is, my first real interest in Spore began when I found a 1-hour plus long video on googlevideo of WW speaking before some Game Designer Conference, about iterative systems and fractal gaming, and this wacky game he was piecing together called Spore. He had a laptop and a plan, and showed a demo, and it looked intriguing. I have to say, I was more seduced by the sheer level of theory that WW was operating on, than the game itself which looked cute and maybe fun.

Then came the Long Wait. More demo videos. More E3 footage. More teasers. Finally the game came out.

It's been wayyyyy dumbed down from its original high concept. Still, it's fun, but I really wanted to taste the concept he was talking about so brilliantly back at that GDC. Maybe EA Games had its way with him. Maybe I have an inflated opinion of WW. I won't claim to be objective about this, I'm a gamer.

Expansions, if I'm going to have to pay for them, better really add huge chunks to the game, unless they are $5, and we know they won't be.

Not just "more parts for the builders" because my experience with the builders is that you can spend a ton of time making a design just the way you want and when it's in the game, it's so small even zoomed all the way in, that you can't see all your slavish devotion to detail and precise positioning. The Civ stage Land, Sea, and Air units look like bugs scurrying around, even the UFO for space stage, you can only zoom so far in, I spent way too long adding invisible details, worrying about just the right textures, and getting things lined up precisely. Next time through, I'm going for basic shapes and details and not worry about puttlng some little fiddly trim on the underside to accent the flow of the design. Because in the end, that is only visible in the build tool itself, not in the game.

Also, the controls need to be worked over. UFO steering and camera control in space stage frankly stinks. Is a simple chase cam with 3 or 4 modes too much to ask?]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71662.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71662.page GMT
I support expansions full-heartedly.[/quote]]

The deal with expansions is that they are 'compliments to an already amazing game"

Look at Civilization IV

I never ONCE thought "Goddamn I really wish I had an expansion to make this fun."

Instead one day the expansion hit and I thought "Oh man! That's a great new attachment to what is already a great product."

That feeling is void here, that is why people are ranting.[/quote]

Terribly good point! Spore need to be content- and gameplay- patched first. - And that better be one hell of a patch.

I've actually seen before what could otherwise very well be the situation now. A game that due to initial perception manages to sell reasonably well - kills the market for anything like a sequel/expansion. And marketers scratch their head and wonders: But the first game did well? What's wrong with this #2?
[i]The answer being: Maybe nothing. There was something wrong with #1 and people don't want it again.[/i]
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71676.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/71676.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/111914.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/111914.page GMT http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/145383.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/145383.page GMT
Please. stop spamming! ]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/145384.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/145384.page GMT
Please. stop spamming! [/quote]

How is this spam when it says what he wants to say.. and points to the place where he thinks people need to read. If it was a link to an "AD" or something that has nothing to do with the game.. then it would be spam.

Now those stupid dragon eggs are SPAMMING!!..
]]> http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/145834.page http://forum.spore.com/jforum/posts/preList/4466/145834.page GMT