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"If I had made SPORE, this is how it would have been." - Hopefully an enjoyable (but longish) read.  XML
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Would you have bought and/or enjoyed this game?
Yes! (Any reason in particular?) 85% [ 143 ]
No! (Any reason in particular?) 15% [ 25 ]
Total Votes : 168
Author Message
theultimateend

Civilized Sporeon

Joined: 09/12/2008 22:13:05
Messages: 1290
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Note: Please don't rate this low just because its long. If there is something you'd like a clarification on just tell me ;p. Consider this the 'Q/A' of my idea.

“If I had been the head figure on the team for Spore.”

I usually don’t get up in arms when a game is bad. Frankly anyone who has been playing games over the years has likely noticed an average decline in quality for the sake of quick profits and limited losses from development. Most storylines are fantastically linear and most characters are infinitely clichéd, it’s a reality we all face but it’s not one that we must face. If I had been on the team for SPORE (I can dream), I would of done the following to the game.

Cell Stage

It was somewhat expected by me that creature creation would be pivotal in this game, having a creature encircled by spikes would be better than one made of bread dough and packing a pistol made of cracker jacks. As I began the cell stage I definitely felt like that was the case. I would put a spike on my cells SPORE and he was now able to just run away softly and carelessly as he wanted because a spike down the throat of my celled predatory friends was enough to get them to either back off or die. It seemed as if the truth would set me free.

However even with the simplicity I expected I was surprised by the amount of parts. I don’t have an exact number but it was exceptionally small. You basically had predatory, omnivore, or herbivore mouth pieces. One for each. What I expected was that these parts would adapt with my creature perhaps getting slightly larger or stronger as I became more successful.

What I found was that this was not the case, in the pool of maxis cells (each with many times the maximum limit of DNA parts on) I was a one hit wonder. However I still enjoyed myself because I was able to get about 4 sets (bilateral duplications) of spikes on me turning me basically into a tube shaped sea urchin.

What I would of done here was continued on with the premise, added about a half dozen parts for each ‘basic’ concept, those of defensive herbivores, voracious carnivores, and your adaptive omnivores. This would of allowed player content to be relevant, I would of also had the parts get stronger as the creatures became more successful and larger. A beak would become sharper or longer as the creature devoured more of its delicious kindred.

If a creature kept getting eaten its propellants would get faster because frankly nothing slow that is tasty lives very long without the help of quick breeding or quick movements.

Sea Stage
Well frankly I was confused that I didn’t see one. At first I thought it was because I put legs on my guy and the fact that there were still fins in the creature creator I figured that was the case.

For the Sea Stage I would of expanded on the cell stage, considering that was the idea propelled for the project by Will Wright (Great Man, shame to see this happen to his baby). In the Sea Stage creatures would of moved along their paths in the sense that herbivores would of become more successful at ingesting more forms of fauna and they’d gain bonuses for keeping in regions with lots of plant life (areas to hide yaknow).

The deep sea would have been largely propogated by the carnivores, the deeper you go the larger they got with Epics commonly found around the bottom but some in the top. The sea stage would have been a bit more aggressive than the cell stage to keep people on their toes and to hit the first climax of the games evolutionary arcs. The movement from Sea to Land on Earth might of not been one that caused the majority of the Earth to be populated (since most of it is already water) but it opened up a world of new means of life and survival.

You would of gained evolutionary points through surviving (a slow rising cost, I’m unsure of what would have been the rate) as well as consuming the flora around you and since frankly it would be entertaining by forming symbiotic relationships with other creatures around you. Creatures would have an inherent effect they brought to the environment that for AI would be decided by its ratings in its stat areas and for players decided by their characters history. Some creatures for instance would eat lots of a certain plant and reside in an area of another and their presence (to keep a more flattering take on fertilization) would cause that other plant to thrive. If your creature enjoyed that plant (your decision obviously via eating it a lot) your creatures would commonly be found around the plant. Relationships would be based on a ratio of aggressiveness of species, actions and history, and finally a small random element (that would only be added initially, some sort of positive bonus so some creature inherently want to make love to your fins).

Carnivores would function in much the way you expect, I would be wary of there being such a symbiotic relationship but perhaps smaller creatures could form relationships by following larger ones and in turn eating the scraps they leave (like the chunks from the cell stage). A player could decide as they accrued dna if they wanted to go large, slow, but stronger, or more towards a slimmer, sleaker, assassin sort of deal. You’d obviously have the infinite span of options in between (if I am to believe algebra and think there are infinite points on any line). This would promote a freedom to create a story for your creature and it would also lead to some difficult questions of what you want to end up, a hulking mass of destructive yumminess or a cuddly plant eating clown fish.

Omnivores would of course reach a balance in between depending on the players decisions. They would either be primarily a carnivore and lead that realm or primarily an herbivore. Not necessarily by a huge margin as I said they’d have the entirety of the line, 59,61 events could happen just as well as 90,10. Their habitat being decided by the area they reside in most and the actions they take most. (If you eat a certain creature constantly your AI controlled partners will set up shop within range of there and go there to hunt…super simple to script).

Landfall and the Creature Stage

When the time to reach land comes obviously we’d have an issue with size. Whales (as far as I know) don’t usually go walking onto land full girth. I realize there is evidence that they once walked on land but I don’t recall that evidence saying they did so at full girth (I think it would crush their internals). Larger carnivores would obviously slim down (IE their limits of height in the creature creator would be lessened) but at the same time their overall effectiveness with damage would be greater than their small counterparts who would likely hunt in packs instead to compensate.

Herbivores would of acted in a similar manner that they do now. You would gain DNA over time just as before (this being true in all sects). Your decisions of where you eat would dictate the area that your ‘creature collective’ would move to. If you eat a lot of those snorgletorgleberries that gimmy91 made last week (yes there would be a berry and floral editor) your creatures would inherently live in range of there to feed. Carnivorous species would then be loaded within range of animals that are easiest for them. This sort of algorithm would take into account speed of the creature and its strength so that slow but hulking herbivores that could one hit a certain carnivore would not be hunted by it, I realize the idea that in real life this isn’t always so but in a game you can have dynamic combat easily and frankly nobody wants to die so that their buddies can eat the titan gogettaroth that merrymerryquitecontrary made when the creature creator came out.

With these simple little tweaks you’d have a dynamic environment. Creatures that could fly could even have the good fortune of setting up shop on trees (it would be simple to set magnet points for non AI controlled players feet to grab when they flew towards a branch). This way the berries out of reach of those SPORE legless pigs would be all theirs. Long necks would also help with dietary options and maximizing profit over space.

Omnivores would again fall in the middle, either moving near creatures they eat, plants they eat, or somewhere within range of both. It pays to discover .


The Tribal Phase
RTS games have become pretty streamlined and frankly I hate most of it since about Command and Conquer Generals (I like it enough to play it, could care less for CnC3). There are some things we can steal from them to make this phase so entertaining that people can’t help but get erections from thinking about playing it more.

Firstly your tribe would set up shop in its primary living area if the fruit or animals it ate still were there. You would have a hut and a small collection of creatures. You would be able to create your hut (adding on as it gets bigger) and you would create (sounds silly I know) your altar for your fire pit and place it wherever you wanted. The ‘walkway’ would generate automatically between the hut and the pit and the creatures would ‘generally’ prefer to walk on this walkway from point a to point b when talking about the tribe homebase.

New buildings would be designed and designated their function (like musical instruments, tools, or storage). These would be placed wherever and they would have an automatic path formed all the way to the fire (the central point in the hut area). Players would have the option of adding roads from any building to any other building also since this would add little to no more code and gives people another option, people love options, this is what made the premise of spore so arousing.

Other tribes would pop up using a similar algorithm to that of the players, their average hunting/gathering zone would be their tribes home base. Their feelings towards you would be based on interactions in the past, relative distance compared to resources available (in case of contesting land or food/water which leads to conflict, look at Darfur ). Players would have multiple functions they could give their creatures.

Water gathering would store water in a hut small building that would (through magic maxis powers) keep the water clean and drinkable. Creatures would need to drink once ever quarter of an hour or so or they would begin to function slow (after an hour they’d begin to lose life) this much like eating would be automated and would be relative to the creatures size and evolutionary characteristics (having a hump or other water storing adaptation from creature stage for instance).

Food gatherers could gather and store fish, other animals, berries, and would if all food was gathered begin automatically ‘processing’ any foods that could be into smaller items such as jerky or dried fish. These ‘upgraded’ items would allow tribe members to leave the hut and eat on the go and would essentially up the amount of food that is available. One fish would produce 4 dried fish strips or something of that fashion.

Hunters would do what it sounds like they would do, hunting either what you target them towards or if left to their own devices the favored/easiest prey within their hunting range.

Warriors or Diplomats would do things ‘similar’ to what is in game now. Warriors would gather and be given armaments much like now and would use them as someone would imagine. While it would be unfortunately limited (possibly with more being added via patches and player input) warriors would have stances they could take or strategies they could use, like strafing or stalking or ambushes. Diplomats would gather musical instruments or train vocally to entertain the enemy also using tricks from a list of options. Different kinds of music would be listen and players would be able to even adapt their own beats (the game would follow the beat and tempo of a song and adapt an in game song from it without lyrics, I’ve done it with some cheap music programs). I imagine the music a creature likes would be purely random, the way people would KNOW is by having one of their creatures sneak over to that area (or through other means like just sending a diplomat to interact which could be dangerous) and listen to what their tribe is playing around the fire.

Not only would your decisions of whether to kill or make love would be listed within the history of your cute smackerasaurus, but also the major methods you used in those. Did you diplomatically discuss the issue, did you sing like a bird, did you dance like a star, did you primary throw spears from a hilltop covered in the poisonous goop of a berry, or did you axe the babies of your enemy tribe while listening to death metal and screaming at your mom (ok maybe not the last part). These would fill in a little substory of your creatures culture. Do they interact through dance, song, or warlike warry stuff.

ALL jobs would rise slowly with your continued use of those abilities. On easy a creature who’s exceptional at spears that dies would come back when you birth a new guy as that same level of awesome, on hard you’d lose them completely (if player response was negative we would make it a toggle). So someone who has been fishing for 5 minutes (you know 500 million millennia j/k) they would be better at it and return with more food than someone that was just born and likes to stare directly in the sun (oh morglorg…you silly).

Also as you gained enough food (100 units or something) you could plant another tribe hut somewhere else. This would essentially double the amount of people you could support, its an option ever RTS ever made has had and I think its appropriate here as well. Just remember that more locations means more targets possibly to have to defend.

Once you had unified or liquefied the entirety of the other species on your continent you would be given two
choices. Continue on your conquest of the world (continue playing) or move on to the road of civilization (advance). While not stated before this option would be available in all instances with no penalties either way (a few bonuses for waiting of course).

Civilization Stage
Your main civilization would reside in the most prosperous location of your tribes (unless there is a dead heat in which case multiples of your civilizations would be rising up to a maximum that would likely be set by your difficulty, game options, or computer specs.

Your buildings would be constructed as they are now, as would turrets and even walls. Again you would place your buildings wherever you wanted and then a road would close the gap. Walls would play an integral part in defense as vehicles would not all shoot over them now. They could be used to block off spaces between mountains or just to be sexy. Turrets would either place on the walls or on their own emplacements for a slightly raised cost.

You would have two forms of currency, spice and sporebucks. Spice would be the major diplomatic tool much like prescription drugs or gold in today’s market. If another party was not agreeing with you and was not interested in your petty cash you could offer them the spice you have refined and they’d get off your thorax. Refineries would also be available for automatically converting a certain amount of spice per hour into sporebucks (it would assume you are using it for improving commerce in your cities).

The majority of your money would come from refining, taxes (which would directly affect happiness like every game with taxes…even sim city…seriously folks MAXIS MADE SIM CITY), and from war because frankly war is obviously profitable for the winning side or the producing side.

Depending on your actions in the past you would have bonuses to certain things, spear chuckers would be better with artillery or ranged warfare, melee would have better times with close range combat, diplomats better abilities charismatically, musicians better abilities by being ignored militaristically (look at Jamaica). The people living in rival nations would either be of your own species or of a rival species that you befriended or ‘failed’ to eradicate in the past. Your previous actions and race relations would tie into the ease of diplomacy or the commonality of war.

The efficiency of the equipment placed on vehicles would be directly proportionate to its main core (power source), this size of its equipment (their weight would be their original weight in proportion to their modified size in the editor), and the location. An artillery cannon pointing at the floor would do GREAT jobs of blowing itself up but not shooting a plane out of the sky. Angles of shot would be decided by the guns position and the range would be decided by the whole efficiency aspect. The AI would take the guesswork of how far to stand back out if you are playing on easy and would do far less of the guesswork on hard . These settings would be available in the user settings so hard players could automate it more if they really wanted (sort of like civilization or any other good civ game…so ugh…civilization).

Also all vehicles would only travel at full speed for the entire distance their vehicle can make on one ‘fill’ to refill you’d either need to have fuel tankers (a new unit that would be added that people can also construct) with the armada or fly to your nearest city to refill in about 30 seconds (a nice buffer for your enemy). The only major penalties to no fuel on easy would be half speed and half shot, on hard it would be the same with a possibility of breaking down or falling out of the sky .

This phase would end when you had either united or leveled the entirety of your competition, this could take an hour or it could take the rest of your life if you really wanted to get realistic . Once you have dominated everyone you would be given the option of further refining and exploring (since you could go to a creature mode at any time as before and forever on) or the build your space shuttle.

Stage in Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace.
The quality of the space shuttle would initially be proportionate to the amount of money you have, a culture with a bajillion trillion dollars would make a better initial ship than a group of bums.

This penalty would be wholly and entirely temporary. As the space phase progressed you would be able to afford more and more upgrades physically as well as functionally. You would be able to upgrade the equipment you already have (which would use that fun little painting system they have to paint on new gears or lights to make it look fancier) or you could put on something bigger and better. Certain equipment would only visibly be available once you physically purchased the ability to use it. So attaching rockets would be available after your ship could fire them. A ship without rocket inserts would STILL be able to use rockets but at a reduced amount of damage (so people don’t have to lay out their ship like a white gangsters car just so it can defend itself but so that those who do can get a bonus) RELATIVE to those who do have them on (so I should just say without the bonus).

You’d again have two major currencies, spice, and sporebucks. Spice would again be the universal standard, for the exception of artifacts and perhaps rare materials that only legendary planets produce (like fig newtons)!

Spice would be traded for automatic cash per hour by trade routes, the amount of trade routes you could have would be directly proportionate to the level of mercantilism you have. Oh right…getting ahead of myself.

There would be a few major stats initially (before any expansions or updates) that a player can raise just by having fun in space. The first is combat which is raised by fighting, the next is nature (or some swankier name) that would rise by populating and terraforming planets (and lower by destroying them), diplomacy/charisma which would rise or lower by your practices with other nations, and the final jack-of-all-trades sandbox stat.

The sandbox stat would rise the more you played around and the longer you played so that everyone gets benefits for just enjoying the game and supporting its team. An in game suggestion and bug system would be available that (if your request was taken or bug you reported fixed) you would gain additional points for. Anyone abusing these features would have them revoked on their accounts but I don’t foresee that happening.

Back to what I was saying before. Your trade routes would be limited ONLY by the amount of creatures you meet and by the level of your mercantilism. The genius here is that your mercantilism rises also as your trade routes succeed. So just by having them open you raise you amount you can have. This would help you to expand your horizons and to conquer the entire galaxy fiscally if you wish (also races with successful trade routes will more than likely stay friendly with you).

Your fleet would also only be limited by your war skill (which rises with use either offensively or defensively) and could be comprised of your own ships or others. MOST races in the beginning of space would not be at the space age yet, you would find in this spore version that a neighbor with a spaceship will initially be like a neighbor in real life with lots of money they want to give to you!

You will have the option to make your own new space friends quicky by dropping monoliths, crop circles, or even planting artifacts that lead directly to space ships in their cities. This way you are not alone but also you are not just one of 90,000,000,000,000,000,000 species that have discovered space travel.

Essentially you would have two major goals provided by your people here. Discover what is truly at the center of your universe, and a secondary one decided by your major playstyle. Either conquering the galaxy, making friends, making babies, or eating baskin robbins icecream. These would be entirely optional though as they’d only affect your citizens charisma (and a badge or two).

Sandbox…and BEYOND!
At this point we are standing in space and wondering…what do I do next? Considering you can leave your ship on any planet and even decide to start back at any stage with your creature (short of single cell) without losing your main empire (reached by a ui function that puts you into one of your many clones that is fully formed) you could relive the fun of the past stuff without starting a new game. Start a new strain of your creature that you could work to make completely different from your other one. You could get yourself worshipped as a god unknowingly by your people on a foreign planet or even enslave the entirety of the galaxy as you destroy their leaders and build nothing but workshops.

This is a major point where player feedback would be received (as my imagination is limited) and used for the first expansion and subsequent patches. Players would think of things they ‘really’ want to do and those functions would be added. Quite simple as that.

So while not complete. This is ‘my’ SPORE. The thing I thought was being made, the game that I expected by someone as incredibly interesting as Will Wright. It’s a shame I’ll only see it on paper, or poorly plagurized by some major industry company (they’ll botch it because I won’t be there to SPORE as the game is made poorly).

Anyone who has questions or wants to know how I'd handle something that I forgot to mention I'd be glad to tell them (just post here or my website I check both).

- Rico -

PS. Copy with correct formatting at: http://islesofscion.net/2008/09/12/if-i-had-been-the-head-figure-on-the-team-for-spore/



This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 09/21/2008 03:43:45


I could have done it better with the same funds and manpower. 'It' being the variable in this statement. - Me

"There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wage possible." - Henry Ford

My website | If I had made Spore!

theultimateend

Civilized Sporeon

Joined: 09/12/2008 22:13:05
Messages: 1290
Offline

Almost 50 views and no responses? I'm hurt.

I could have done it better with the same funds and manpower. 'It' being the variable in this statement. - Me

"There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wage possible." - Henry Ford

My website | If I had made Spore!

mestryf

Microbe

Joined: 09/13/2008 19:31:08
Messages: 1
Offline

Great post....went here because i needed a place where to put my frustation about the spore game. and i find ur post.

the "huge" let me say changes that u make in the game would be simple perfect and that would make of spore the 100% great game that it could have been..if he folowed the "platen life line" more closely and complete....spore would be the best game of the year.....now its incomplet..desapointing...and a future fedding cow that i will not buy at all....give us the spore that EA show to us in the 32min and others long videos....and i would be happy.

60 Euros for the actual spore game...beter i dont coment

even aothers games are less expencive and much fun...sry to say this but well players need to say this things..we are desapointed..yes we are...and u EA know that..and hope u will soon do something about it..because if u wanted to make expancion packs..u should never ever made those game play presentations...because now its like ( u want that??? U PAY FOR IT.) and thas not nice.....at all.
theultimateend

Civilized Sporeon

Joined: 09/12/2008 22:13:05
Messages: 1290
Offline

mestryf wrote:Great post....went here because i needed a place where to put my frustation about the spore game. and i find ur post.

the "huge" let me say changes that u make in the game would be simple perfect and that would make of spore the 100% great game that it could have been..if he folowed the "platen life line" more closely and complete....spore would be the best game of the year.....now its incomplet..desapointing...and a future fedding cow that i will not buy at all....give us the spore that EA show to us in the 32min and others long videos....and i would be happy.

60 Euros for the actual spore game...beter i dont coment

even aothers games are less expencive and much fun...sry to say this but well players need to say this things..we are desapointed..yes we are...and u EA know that..and hope u will soon do something about it..because if u wanted to make expancion packs..u should never ever made those game play presentations...because now its like ( u want that??? U PAY FOR IT.) and thas not nice.....at all.


Yeah it's always been my confusion of how I can devise a game in an hour and yet over years entire throngs of people fall short.

There is no way that I'm 'that' talented. It just shows the shortcomings of capitalism and gaming. I know someday I'd love to head a team for a game. Spore would of been that game for me this generation (I use consoles generations to label pc generations too ).

I could have done it better with the same funds and manpower. 'It' being the variable in this statement. - Me

"There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wage possible." - Henry Ford

My website | If I had made Spore!

stuffy71

Microbe

Joined: 09/14/2008 03:23:52
Messages: 6
Offline

It was a long read. In a design document you should be able to take each phase and summarise it in 20 words.

Breaking it down:

Cell phase - you want to add more parts to collect on your critter.

You want to add the Tidepool phase back in.

Creature phase - you lost me here. I can't see what is different in your suggestions from the way the game is already. The point about mass of creatures is largely irrelevant as you can make your creatures pretty big in the editor. The game already has migration, and it seeds creatures of more powerful abilities close to points of interest already.

Tribal Phase is supposed to be similar to Populous, not an RTS. Your suggestions want to add in aspects of The Settlers (road links), adding another good to track (water) as well. Why do you wish to add more layers of complexity to this phase of the game? A lot of these things are (rightly) autonomous actions. If a creature is thirsty, it drinks. It shouldn't be able to die if you lose track of where you left it.
When you mention Hunters, Warriors and Diplomats - that's kind of how it works already. I click on a creature, tell it to go kill stuff and it hunts. A warrior kills other tribes' creatures, and the diplomat, well that's your leader or when you go to friendly mode and offer gifts.
I don't mind the idea of being able to seed your village off somewhere - there's always a bunch of unoccupied campfires in Tribal phase, maybe you could migrate to one of those.

Civ phase - Artillery shoots over walls. Flying vehicles fly over walls. Marine vehicles carry artillery and can sail around walls. Conclusion - walls are overrated.
Again, two resources to track? Why? If I make money from selling spice, then why use it as a separate resource? Isn't it the same thing, because it is able to be swapped one for the other?
Balancing vehicles is a good idea. That's why its' in the game already. You can make a vehicle that moves really fast but it is weak and low health. As for positioning, well anyone who points their gun at the floor is a twit. I gather you are referring more to gun placement. Wouldn't the guns be mobile, like a turret? You're on the right track there though.

Space Phase - Striaght away you slug the player with a penalty based on how much cash they have. Bad idea. What if they were a middle sized economy who had brilliant scientists? Or warmongers who spent everything killing off the rest of the planet, and have no enemies - but no coinage?
Going to your two major goals. They're strangely familiar.

OK, so I may have rained on your parade a little. But what I have done is provide you with some reasons why things are cut out during development. By all means feel free to reply to any of my comments.





alaster34

Microbe

Joined: 09/14/2008 15:33:42
Messages: 5
Offline

I like how you think and cant think of any objections to your ideas for improving the game in its current state.

I dont want to knock Spore or Maxis and Im sure Im not the only person to say this but the game while fun was deffinately better in theory than execution and I dont want to draw conclusions but for the sake of sales to recoup some of that investment money to get this boat rocking and appeal to the masses. (Again Im not hating on Maxis I understand and now that you have a basis from which to improve I would expect as much and will support the company !!!! However DRM !!!! I hope I dont have any problems with a reformat / hardware ect. I do plan on building a system next month so there goes (1) activation there... no further comment on that.)

Some other ideas
* Climate (regions / zones ie. Tundra Colder / Moutain Regions / Plains / Ocean Side / Desert ect) of course the planets would have to be quite a bit bigger for this to work along with your hunting zones / and regions of food that appeals to a species but that is in my opinion adding to the element of exploration (having a bigger planet). Back to my point though is that adapting your creature to the local enviroment through perhaps -> forced or willingly migrating based on extinctions or other events (* random events / catastrophe's?? I thought it was pretty cool when the meteor shower occured only to realize a few plays through creature phase that it was a scripted event to trigger/flag when you reached a certain point, "same with the space ship" but having random events that effect the game and are meaningful) If your hairless manbearpig is either forced or has to move north to colder regions then unless your species gets to the tribal stage very quickly and learns fire or skinning ( both I know arent relevant in the current game ) then you are probably going to go extinct very soon by freezing to death. How you get there "evolving or adpating" im sure there are many ways to upgrade in a certain time frame (eat x amount of food and do this flagged event before time reaches x) or your creature perishes or whatever penalty is appropriate.

There are many twists that can be applied to this idea but I sure was expecting something a lot different in the game especially in the creature phase. I had envisioned (random thought) walking my creature through a dense larger forest with the light barely creeping through the canopy and the forest being eerily quiet, and me being curious and wanting to explore my large / randomly generated planet wanting to get familiar with what is inhabiting my planet ect I might come across a species of something horrible in that forest (somebodies creation) but pertaining to regions I may not have to worry about that species if I just stay away from that forest after my encounter. When I found that primarily there were a HUGE amount of other creatures infesting my world it made it less personable and each of those species just hung out around there nest. (I know a few roam). I like the Rogue and Epics those are nice but cut back the amount of species from the current numbers to a small food chain of (arbitrary number) 5-5-5 or whatever 7-7-7 (herbs,carns,omni) if one goes extinct have another creature from that variety evolve on some corner of the planet and make its way but let them free roam and expand there territory. In additon have also another arbitrary number of water species and flying species that are not part of the main food chain I had mentioned for atmosphere. They can even be creations just miniturized flying creatures.

Well there a lot of things that can be said to make this game appeal for the more hardcore gamers and those are the ones like me and theultimateend or anyone on the forums for that matter who would try and give advice on how to improve the game for our expectations. Again there is a code base out there for this type of game now and Im sure we can expect some good things to come but I supposed they have to tread water for now and get there money. This game changed so much from WW's original concept in '05 at least thats about when I remember picking up on this game at Gamasutra. Its part of getting the money back then hopefully we can get a less cartoony version that is closer to the original idea and more. And yes I recall the given reason for the move to the more bubbly characters is that the creature creator and the procedural texture and animations looked funny when trying to make the creatures realistic. I will argue this, Im sure in some cases it did but not in all and I would rather have texture limitations or other limitations but I want my creatures to look real or at least cool looking.

Thought I would jump in and add my own opinion I think the game is still fun but because its not quite what I was expecting I will probably move one soon and play it from time to time.

Space Stage I forgot to agree with a lot of the other users, far too involved with other advanced species. Best way to give the developers direction on this one. Think Stargate and the rest will take care of itself. (1) maybe (2) evil races in a HUGE galaxy. (Yes Im sure you can make many more but initially when you reach that space stage) plenty of under developed species, some tribal creatures out there for sure and a handful of minor races 10 to (X) some of those being subject to those evil races. Some good races ect.. too many options there to get into but exploration and seeking knowlege (advancements) for those wiling to help your civ. learn. Watch Stargate and you will get it. I think you advance way to fast and have to deal with way to much in the space stage.. that part of the game needs some major tweaking.. and there is a TON of stuff that could be added to make that part of the game really fun so it has potential.

Not going to check for grammer sorry there it is..

Later
theultimateend

Civilized Sporeon

Joined: 09/12/2008 22:13:05
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stuffy71 wrote:The game already has migration, and it seeds creatures of more powerful abilities close to points of interest already.

Why do you wish to add more layers of complexity to this phase of the game? A lot of these things are (rightly) autonomous actions.

When you mention Hunters, Warriors and Diplomats - that's kind of how it works already. I click on a creature, tell it to go kill stuff and it hunts.

Civ phase - Artillery shoots over walls. Flying vehicles fly over walls. Marine vehicles carry artillery and can sail around walls. Conclusion - walls are overrated.
Again, two resources to track?

Space Phase - Striaght away you slug the player with a penalty based on how much cash they have. Bad idea. What if they were a middle sized economy who had brilliant scientists? Or warmongers who spent everything killing off the rest of the planet, and have no enemies - but no coinage?
Going to your two major goals. They're strangely familiar.

OK, so I may have rained on your parade a little. But what I have done is provide you with some reasons why things are cut out during development. By all means feel free to reply to any of my comments.


You didn't rain on my parade at all.

I have played through the creature stage about a dozen times and haven't seen migration put me near anything but 30 carnivores on hard mode. How is an herbivore moving in between a million things that'll eat him logical?

Why am I adding layers of complexity you ask? Well because these were the layers that were promised and were removed. You already DO get penalized for not eating, and its a slow process not unlike what I just said for water. Your people don't automatically gather food unless you tell them to so adding water makes it no more complicated. As I said it gives people options, people like options.

Also the word more is a bit overzealous, other than the worlds you are playing in there is 'no' complexity to the game types. The combat is generic and simple and the social areas are generic and simple. I'm impressed by the planetary aspect of the game but otherwise its extremely simple premises wrapped up in extremely simple design choices.

Plus on the case of automation I was stating that your creatures would gain skill in what they do and as far as I can think it interactions with other races would be automated (besides you clicking them). At least I can't think of how the current interactive system is entertaining and so far most complaints would point to it not being entertaining :P. The spore DS version of interaction is far superior (and fun :D).

Walls are already pointless so I don't see how me giving them at least some dynamic makes them any more useless. Also since when could boats go around wall of a landlocked city? I said that you could put walls in between mountains and other areas (ploppable) so how would artillery make them obsolete? Then we take into account turrets shoot planes so how do planes make them obsolete?

As for space it was (as I emphasized) a temporary penalty Sort of like people who aren't setup to be diplomatic off the bat are going to find that being a warlord in space is immediately nerfed. You have to win a collection of fights before you can even conquer an opponent planet.

Also since when did being smart without money mean you can get things done? There are millions (ok maybe thousands) of brilliant people out there with plans that could save the world or cure major life problems. There has to be money in it for it to get done.

If we are to assume spore is a galactic life simulator we can also assume the laws of commercialism apply here too.

So no, you didn't rain on my parade. I just turned the drought generator on and let it fly.

It just feels like they took your advice of cutting things to the point that the game has nothing to it. I've gone to the center of the universe, gotten most of the badges, gotten a good chunk of the achievements, and find myself slowly running out of things to do. Albeit blowing up planets has yet to get old ;).

alaster34 wrote:I like how you think and cant think of any objections to your ideas for improving the game in its current state.


Is that directed towards me? I don't even know what it means :P.

- Rico -

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 09/14/2008 20:58:16


I could have done it better with the same funds and manpower. 'It' being the variable in this statement. - Me

"There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wage possible." - Henry Ford

My website | If I had made Spore!

MrRogersHasAGun

Multicellular

Joined: 09/13/2008 16:16:37
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The problem with this is Spore is mainly meant for casual gamers. The Civilization stage you want sounds a lot like Age of Empires (which is a better RTS by far).

Why so cereal? Cerealy, why? Tell us!
Expansions are a company saying "We didn't feel like putting this in, now pay us $20 to have it!"
"Whoever said that the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons" - General Douglas McArthur
Hey, guess what? I'm "multi-cellular"! So instead of being a useless cell I'm TWO useless cells!
theultimateend

Civilized Sporeon

Joined: 09/12/2008 22:13:05
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mrrogershasagun wrote:The problem with this is Spore is mainly meant for casual gamers. The Civilization stage you want sounds a lot like Age of Empires (which is a better RTS by far).


Well the fun thing about difficulties is we could work the easy difficulties to have less complicated features .

So far the poll shows that other than one guy I'm doing quite well in my game development skills . Assuming I didn't get fisted by EA.

I've had lots of other little ideas but I'm trying to keep it simple up there and just address things as they are asked (like your question).

- Rico -

I could have done it better with the same funds and manpower. 'It' being the variable in this statement. - Me

"There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wage possible." - Henry Ford

My website | If I had made Spore!

theultimateend

Civilized Sporeon

Joined: 09/12/2008 22:13:05
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OMG 2 nos!

I don't understand the nos but I do understand the "only if you actually made it like you said you would" polls.

Because frankly after this incident its hard to take people seriously.

I could have done it better with the same funds and manpower. 'It' being the variable in this statement. - Me

"There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wage possible." - Henry Ford

My website | If I had made Spore!

GimpyImp

Multicellular

Joined: 09/13/2008 01:54:31
Messages: 400
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Cell stage:
pretty much the way it is now

Creature:
Well cell would go into the ocean of the planet and depending on how you design it would allow you to live certain ocean environments. being something that lives in a coral reef wouldnt work well out in the deep ocean. you could also control whether you creature has gills or requires to surface for air.

then youd gradually move onto land as some kinda of land/water creature or chose to evolve completely water based. then if you so choose you can become land based and open up the many different options land creatures have.

tribal and civ:
would pretty much play out the same but with far more customization of the village/city

space:
as the years pass your species develops new technology allowing different tools and upgrades. all terraforming tools can be bought through companies rather than finding them on planets.

there would be no common enemy but rather you do what you want to anyone whether it be forming an alliance of different species working together rather than just helping you while still attacking each other to being a tyrant taking each system one by one at any cost

planetary defense would be far more advanced in building large fleets to defend large areas of your empire orbiting, platforms in solar systems and having more than one fighter satellite on a planet.

space travel over time would become more diverse as new technology would be unlocked and taking mock ups from various sci fi shows like star trek and star gate. some ways would be subspace corridors built onto stars. my fav would be large portal gates (the massive ones in the later eps of star gate).

this would work by building one on one side then the tedious (but logical) task of playing to the area of the galaxy you want to build the other gate. eventually you build thousands of these around your galaxy allowing for instant travel and not have to worry about finding that gate again as each is connected to a network so you can travel to any place from any gate. so if say some large armada was attacking and you were needed you could travel to the nearest gate, dial up the home gate and travel there unless it was destroyed as they can become targets for enemies.

theultimateend

Civilized Sporeon

Joined: 09/12/2008 22:13:05
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gimpyimp wrote:Space:
as the years pass your species develops new technology allowing different tools and upgrades. all terraforming tools can be bought through companies rather than finding them on planets.

there would be no common enemy but rather you do what you want to anyone whether it be forming an alliance of different species working together rather than just helping you while still attacking each other to being a tyrant taking each system one by one at any cost

planetary defense would be far more advanced in building large fleets to defend large areas of your empire orbiting, platforms in solar systems and having more than one fighter satellite on a planet.

space travel over time would become more diverse as new technology would be unlocked and taking mock ups from various sci fi shows like star trek and star gate. some ways would be subspace corridors built onto stars. my fav would be large portal gates (the massive ones in the later eps of star gate).

this would work by building one on one side then the tedious (but logical) task of playing to the area of the galaxy you want to build the other gate. eventually you build thousands of these around your galaxy allowing for instant travel and not have to worry about finding that gate again as each is connected to a network so you can travel to any place from any gate. so if say some large armada was attacking and you were needed you could travel to the nearest gate, dial up the home gate and travel there unless it was destroyed as they can become targets for enemies.


It would be cool to me if by default in the 'green' zone any enemy that enters gets constantly attacked just like you do if you are in the 'red' zone.

Hell if the next patch is just "giving me all the options that AI has in every section" I'd be pretty stoked.

Like having enough DNA to make a cell to fight that multimouth monstrosity .

I could have done it better with the same funds and manpower. 'It' being the variable in this statement. - Me

"There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wage possible." - Henry Ford

My website | If I had made Spore!

jemenfou

Microbe

Joined: 09/12/2008 23:55:27
Messages: 9
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hopefully some company is gonna come with some other better evolution game!

I mean with what ive seen the the things you can do with an evolution game are so vast that it should be that hard...

I find Spore very anti-science and very shallow! there was so much that could of been done!
Aznparker

Multicellular

Joined: 09/12/2008 05:52:27
Messages: 133
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I wish there was a "which phase do you like/dislike most" poll.

I like the first two phases, and the improvements you and others have suggested would only make it better. Tribal is just too easy, even on hard. I use my "special" to gather enough food for max people and 1-3 buildings and I spend the rest of the time just killing/singing with all of my tribe. When people and animals come to raid me for food, I just don't care at all since it is so completely useless to a point. I believe the most fun I've had here is staring at my pets (They defend! They charge and spit and are usually more than a match for a few raiders), watching my tribe sneak, charge, spit, glide, and strike, and killing epics.

Civ... I don't know but I don't like it at all. I either win fast or lose fast. More options would be a great distraction and I'd love it (although I would probably have to constantly pause the game so some military guy doesn't kill me). Complexity would be great, and if this game is for causal players, complexity would only be on hard.

As for space, I think the most obvious is reducing bio-disasters. I don't mind the grox one as there are ways you can get rid of it (supposedly) or the pirate one because spice is completely useless. Really need a separate fleet or planetary defense, or at least make them fight when you aren't there (Did they implement this? I started ignoring my planets and none were captured).

As for the stats you mentioned, what about just giving each ship in your fleet a single slot? Putting missiles mean better ship-to-ship combat, bombs=better city destruction, cargo=more cargo, diplo=better relations, econ=5% more money for spice, healers/engerizers/shielders/hp...ers, etc. Makes for more options of how you want to play, no?

I would also LOVE to have multiple endings like in civ4, depending on military (kill 25 races? conquer 70 worlds?, religious?, economical (make 500m sporebucks), exploration (get to the center?), making new species, making friends, making planets... maybe only 3 of those I just mentioned. And definitely reduce the amount of space races, it makes me bored of exploring because there are too many faces to remember (so I usually like killing off all but 6 that I meet).

Thoughts on Spore from an ex-Maxis intern.

I think spore is for 5 year olds and adults with the same mental capacity: Seed Magazine
theultimateend

Civilized Sporeon

Joined: 09/12/2008 22:13:05
Messages: 1290
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I wish people who say no would give me reasons why ;p.

I highly suspect they just hate reading.

I could have done it better with the same funds and manpower. 'It' being the variable in this statement. - Me

"There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wage possible." - Henry Ford

My website | If I had made Spore!

 
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