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Ancient Aliens: Real or Ridiculous?  XML
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Poll
do you believe the ancient aliens theory could be true?
Yes, the evidence seems compelling 15% [ 5 ]
Mabye, but some of it makes no sense 44% [ 15 ]
No, the entire idea in insane! 41% [ 14 ]
Total Votes : 34
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Slyth33


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I have yet to see anything from the ancient world that couldn't have been built with fairly crude means and sufficient manpower. Just because they didn't carve every step of their construction process into stone doesn't mean that we can't make a pretty good guess as to how they did it.

Drew980


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I was sleeping all day and woke up around 5PM to ancient aliens. What a wonderful show to wake to. They were telling me that aliens came down and had intercourse with native Americans and had alien babies. They would grow up for six years and get taken away back to their home world.

=/

I sill vogue for it being entirely Ridiculous.

crazyjoe98


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Reminds me of some guy telling my father his theory on sasquatch.

Turns out, bigfoot is what happens when an alien and a human have children.

InGenCorp


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Takua, those ideas about Earth being seeded aren't theories. Theories require corroborating facts and evidence. Those ideas are, at best, far-fetched speculation.

DragonEye4


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crazyjoe98 wrote:Reminds me of some guy telling my father his theory on sasquatch.

Turns out, bigfoot is what happens when an alien and a human have children.
Appearance of Aliens:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 10/17/2011 00:30:11


Tyranno97


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InGenCorp wrote:
That's great, Tyranno. No try citing sources that combine the rare qualities of not being nuts and having some knowledge of how the world actually works.

For the first story, there's no reason to assume antigravity, aliens, or any other silly things were involved.

For the second, that's perfectly explainable. They froze to death, suffered from hypothermia (hence the clothes), were found by scavengers (who happen to like eating tongues, which is not uncommon), and the orange color can be explained by solar radiation.

You've given us one ingenious sculptor and a mountaineering accident.


After some thought, I've realized that you've got some pretty unsound reasoning to back up your claims.

First off, even if Ed was a great sculptor, which he probably was, that just does not explain how he moved hundred ton stones all by himself or what he meant by discovering the secret the Egy[tians used to build the pyramid.

For the second story, they sustained massive internal injuries with no scratches on their skin. I don't know about you, but no scavengers I know only eat the tongue and besides, the Dyaltov Pass is devoid of predators. Then there's the fact that they had radiation on their clothes and had prematurely aged. Your explanation doesn't account for this nor does it the evidence that they cut their way out of their own tent before wandering away in a frenzy. You forgot about the blindness bit and the lights in the sky.

Oh, and I found a better article recounting the incident;The plan had been for the party to return to Vizhai by 12 February, from where Dyatlov would send a telegram to the Institute’s sports club saying that they had arrived safely. No one appeared concerned when the telegram failed to arrive as arranged – after all, these were experienced skiers. It was only on 20 February – when worried relatives of the students raised the alarm – that the Institute sent out a search-and-rescue team of teachers and students, followed by the police and army, who dispatched aeroplanes and helicopters.


The volunteer rescuers found the abandoned camp on 26 February. “We discovered that the tent was half torn down and covered with snow. It was empty, and all the group’s belongings and shoes had been left behind,” said Mikhail Sharavin, the student volunteer who found the tent. It had been cut open from the inside, with slashes big enough for a person to get through. Footprints were discovered in the metre-deep snow, left by people wearing socks, valenki (soft felt boots) or a single shoe, or who were completely barefoot. The footprints were matched to the members of the group, although there was some doubt as to whether they corresponded to eight or nine people; there was no evidence of a struggle, or of other people beside the skiers, and no sign of the students themselves.


The prints led down the slope toward the forest but disappeared after 500m (550 yards). One and a half kilometres from the tent, the first two bodies were discovered. Georgy Krivonischenko and Yury Doroshenko, barefoot and dressed in their underclothes, were found at the edge of the forest, under a towering pine tree. Their hands were burned, and the charred remains of a fire lay nearby. The branches on the tree were broken up to 5m (16ft) high, suggesting that a skier had climbed up to look for something, and other broken branches were scattered on the snow.


A further 300m (1,000ft) onwards, lay the body of Dyatlov, on his back with his face looking in the direction of the camp and with one hand clutching a branch. A further 180m toward the tent, the searchers found Rustem Slobodin, and 150m on from him lay Zina Kolmogorova; both looked as if they had been trying to crawl to the tent with their last remaining strength.


Doctors said all five had died of hypothermia. Only Slobodin bore any injuries other than burnt hands: his skull was fract­ured, although this was not considered to be the cause of his death.


It took two months to locate the remaining four skiers. Their bodies were found buried under 4m (13ft) of snow in a forest ravine, 75m (250ft) away from the pine tree. Nicolas Thibeaux-Brignollel, Ludmila Dubinina, Alexander Kolevatov and Alexander Zolotaryov appeared to have suffered traumatic deaths. Thibeaux-Brignollel’s skull had been crushed, and Dubunina and Zolotarev had numerous broken ribs. Dubinina also had no tongue. The bodies, however, showed no external wounds.


According to writer Igor Sobolyov, who has investigated the deaths, it was also apparent that some of them had taken clothes from the bodies of those who had died first in an attempt to keep warm; some of the garments had cuts in them as if they had been forcibly removed. Zolotaryov was wearing Dubinina’s faux fur coat and hat, while Dubinina’s foot was wrapped in a piece of Krivonishenko’s woollen trousers. Thibeaux-Brignolle had two watches on his wrist – one showed 8.14am, the other 8.39am.


Despite the many unans­wered questions, the investigat­ion was closed by the end of the month and the case files sent to a secret archive. Even more mysteriously, skiers and other adventurers were barred from the area for the next three years.





THE INVESTIGATION
“I was 12 at that time, but I do remember the deep resonance that the accident had with the public, despite the authorities’ efforts to keep relatives and investigators silent,” says Yury Kuntsevich, head of the Yekaterinburg-based Dyatlov Found­ation, which today is trying to unravel the mystery.


Over the years, many people have tried to understand just what happened on the night of 1–2 February on the slope of Kholat-Syakhyl. Some, like Igor Sobolyov, have become fascinated by the young skiers’ tragic deaths. “The Ural stud­ents, who have become tourist legends, bravely took part in an unequal battle on the slopes of Kholat-Syakhyl with the Unknown,” he wrote, “and they showed that they had the best human qualities in that battle.”


But what was the nature of this ‘Unknown’ with which they fought and lost? What made them run from their tent, and why were they trying to get back to it in the dark when they had made a fire elsewhere? How did the second group end up buried under 4m (13ft) of snow? There are a number of theories.


One of the first to be explored by the original investi­gators was that the students were killed by the local indigen­ous people, the Mansi, for trespassing on their holy land. There was a precedent for this, which might have been in the minds of the investigators: in the 1930s, Mansi shamans had reportedly drowned a female geologist who had climbed a mountain that the tribe considered forbidden. But in this case, although both mountains are mentioned in Mansi folklore, neither was considered a sacred or taboo site. The chilling coincidence that Otorten, the doomed party’s destination, means “don’t go there” in the Mansi language while Kholat-Syakhyl means “Mountain of the Dead” probably has more to do with practical warnings for wandering Mansi than any sort of tribal curse. Besides, the nearest Mansi village was 80–100km (50–60 miles) away; they generally enjoyed good relations with the Russians and didn’t tend to go anywhere near Kholat-Syakhyl in winter, when the weather was unsuitable for deer herding or fishing.


In the face of this lack of evidence, the Mansi theory was soon rejected. Other suggest­ions were that the group had simply stumbled upon a gang of criminals in the area, or had been mistaken for escaped convicts by prison guards from a nearby camp. A claim was even made that, some time later, prisoners in the camp were heard singing a song with words based on a poem by Dyatlov. The fact that Dyatlov is not known to have written poetry makes this unlikely, and the story seems to be a garbled version of the fact that during the students’ overnight stay in Vizhai they had met a group of geologists from whom they had learned a number of ‘forbidden’ songs, as Ludmila Dubinina recorded in her diary. Whether these were political songs written and sung in prisons or just ‘thief ballads’ is unclear.


In any case, all three of the theories based on human intervention foundered on the fact that no other footprints were found in the area around the tent or near the bodies. Furthermore, Dr Boris Vozrozh­denny, who examined the bodies, said he believed no man could have inflicted the injuries because the force of the blows had been too strong and no soft tissue had been damaged; “It was equal to the effect of a car crash,” he said.


But if human beings weren’t responsible for the skiers’ deaths, then what was?


Those mysterious, car crash-like injuries, according to Russ­ian cryptozoologist Mikhail Trakhtengertz, looked “as if someone had hugged them, oh so tightly”, and a number of armchair theorists have sugg­ested that what sent the group running in terror from their tent was the sight of a 3m (10ft)-tall monster looming out of the snows.


Sightings of ‘abominable snowmen’ and yeti-like creat­ures are common in Russia – after all, if such creatures do exist then the country’s vast snowfields offer plenty of places for them to hide from the eyes of man.


Trakhtengertz has also stated that in their ‘newspaper’, the Evening Otorten, the students had written in large letters: “From now on we know that the snowmen exist”. Perhaps, though, we shouldn’t read too much into this; it goes onto say: “They can be met in the Northern Urals, next to Otorten mount­ain.” Given the humorous tone of the ‘newspaper’, it’s quite likely that the students were jokingly referring to themselves rather than recording a genuine sighting of an almasty.


Even less likely was the sugg­estion made in some quarters that the party had fallen foul of subterranean-dwelling Russian gnomes.





THE FILES
It wasn’t until the 1990s that the case files were declassified and re-opened. What they contained only served to make the events of February 1959 still more mysterious.


Medical tests had shown very high levels of radiation on the bodies and clothes of four of the skiers, as if they had been handl­ing radioactive materials or had been in a radioactive area. The original chief investigator, Lev Ivanov, described how he took a Geiger counter with him to the campsite on the mountain slope; as he approached, the device started to click rapidly and loudly.


Ivanov also revealed that he had been ordered by senior regional officials to close the case and classify the findings as secret. The authorities had been worried by reports from many eyewitnesses, including the weather service and the military, that “bright flying spheres” had been spotted in the area in February and March 1959, with a notable concentration of accounts dating from 17 February. “I suspected at the time and am almost sure now that these bright flying spheres had a direct connection to the group’s death,” Ivanov told Leninsky Put, a small Kazakh newspaper.


The files contained testimony from another group of adventurers, geography students, who had been camping about 50km (30 miles) south of the skiers on the same night. The leader of the group said they had seen strange orange spheres, or “balls of fire”, floating in the night sky in the direction of Kholat-Syakhl on the night the students died. Another wrote that they saw “a shining circular body fly over the village from the south-west to the north-east. The shining disc was practically the size of a full moon, a blue-white light surrounded by a blue halo. The halo brightly flashed like the flashes of distant lightning. When the body disappeared behind the horizon, the sky lit up in that place for a few more minutes.”


Ivanov speculated that one of the skiers might have left the tent during the night, seen a sphere and woken up the others with his cries, urging them to run downhill toward the forest. Then, the sphere might have exploded as they ran, killing the four who had serious injuries and cracking Slobodin’s skull.


“I can’t say what those balls were – some kind of arms or aliens or something else – but I am certain that they are directly connected to the deaths of those lads.” Yuri Yudin also thinks an explosion killed his friends. The level of secrecy surrounding the incident suggests to him that the group might have inadvertently entered a secret military testing ground, a theory supported by the radiation on their clothes. Yury Kuntsevich agrees, saying that another clue was an inexplicable suntan. “I attended the funerals of the first five victims and remember that their faces look liked they had a deep brown tan,” he said. Some accounts also suggest that relatives of the students had talked about the bodies having a strange “orange tan” and grey hair. The released documents contained no information about the condition of the skiers’ internal organs. “I know for sure that there were special boxes with their organs sent for exam­ination,” said Yudin. No traces of an explosion, however, have been found near Kholat-Syakhl.


Two years before the students disappeared, the Soviet Union had sent the first satellite into space from the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan; two years after their deaths, in 1961, Yuri Gagarin would fly from Baikonur to become the first man in space in 1961. Could the Russ­ian space programme have any bearing on the mystery?


While it’s true that a miss­ile fired from Baikonur could have reached the northern Urals, there are no records of any launches at the time, said Alexander Zeleznyakov, a historian on Soviet missiles and a senior official with the Korolyov Rocket and Space Corp­oration Energia. The Soviet Union’s other main launch pad, Ples­etsk – though closer to the Urals – only opened in late 1959; the surface-to-air missiles that could have been launched from the pads had not yet been built.


However, Yury Kuntsevich says he led a group to the area in 2007, where they found a “cemetery” of scrap metal that suggested the military had conducted experiments there at some time. “We can’t say what kind of military technology was tested, but the catastrophe of 1959 was man-made,” he believes.


Yuri Yudin’s theory is that the military might have found the tent before the volunteer rescuers. He said he had been asked to identify the owner of every object found at the scene and had failed to find a match for a piece of cloth that looked like it had come from a soldier’s coat, a pair of glasses, a pair of skis and a piece of a ski. Yudin had also seen documents that led him to believe that the criminal investigation had been opened on 6 February – 14 days before the search team found the tent.


Other proponents of the ‘mili­tary cover-up’ version of events go further, and believe the hikers could have been deliberately killed after stumbling upon some kind of military secret. Whatever the military had been testing – and perhaps it had gone disastrously wrong – they hadn’t expected anyone to be in such a remote area in the middle of winter. When they discovered the group of sports tourists, their priority was to ensure secrecy by elimin­ating any surviving witnesses.


But the tourists were already dead or dying. The explosion had killed three on the slope and two more by the fire. Four were still alive, but suffering from the radiation; as they slipped into unconsciousness, they were thrown into a pit, causing the injuries they were later found with. Snow was piled on top of their dying bodies.


The conspiracy theorists admit it sounds like a fantast­ical explanation, but point to the case of Captain Eduard Ulman, a Russian army officer who served in Chechnya in 2002. Soldiers under his comm­and shot at a van carrying six Chechens at a checkpoint, killing one. When he radioed into his command, he was told not to leave any witnesses. The rest were killed and their bodies burnt. Ulman was later charged and convicted.


But once again, the lack of extra footprints in the area makes this narrative hard to accept.


Moisei Akselrod, a friend of Dyatlov, is one of those who take a more sober approach to the mystery of the skiers’ deaths. He believes that an avalanche hit their tent in the middle of the night. Some of the students were injured as the snow hit the tent, and with it blocking the entrance they had to cut their way out before heading for the woods and the base camp. Unfortunately, they went the wrong way. Having set up a fire, they took off their clothes to give to the injured.


Evgeniy Buyanov and Valentin Nekrasov, experienced sport tourists, also support this vers­ion of events, maintaining that the character of the group’s injuries is consistent with the impact of a large amount of snow pressing them to the skis that were used as a tent floor, and that this explains why they showed no external bruises or scratches. Thibaux-Brignolle’s skull was fractured in the impact, while Dubinina could have bitten off her own tongue.


Sceptics of this theory point out that the skiers left the camp by foot and travelled more than a kilometre (1,100 yards) in –30º C (–22º F). Thibeaux-Brignollel would have been unconscious due to his shattered skull, but his friends could have carried him (investigators couldn’t decide whether there were eight or nine pairs of footprints in the snow). Dubinina and Zolotarev could have walked with their broken ribs, though the nature of Dubinina’s injuries – one of the broken ribs had penetrated her heart, causing hæmorrhaging –would have left her with only about 10–20 minutes to live, meaning that she would have been dead by the time they approached the forest. So how could two of her male companions have frozen to death before she died? Once again, we are left with more questions than answers.





THE LEGACY
Since more details of the tragedy emerged in the 1990s, researchers have continued to search for answers. Local Yekat­erinburg journalist Anatoly Guschin, one of the first people to study the original files, maintains that a number of pages – and an envelope ment­ioned in the case list – were mysteriously missing. In 1999, he published a book called The Price of State Secrets is Nine Lives setting out his theory concerning a military secret weapons tests and a state cover-up. Lev Ivanov added weight to this version of events when he went public with his story of being ordered to bury the case, although Ivanov – who retired to Kazakhstan and has since died – continued to believe that UFOs and alien technology were behind the whole affair.


In 2000, a regional television company made a documentary film about the incident, and local writer Anna Matveyeva published a semi-fictional account of the events in her book Dyatlov Pass. Since then, the Dyatlov Foundation has been founded in Yekaterinburg, led by Dyatlov’s old friend Yuri Kuntsevich, to honour the dead students and attempt to get the case officially reopened.


Last year, six members of the original search party and 31 independent experts gathered in Yekaterinburg for a conference organised by Ural State Technical University, the Dyatlov Foundation and several nongovernmental organisations. They concluded that the military had been carrying out tests in the area and had inadvertently caused the deaths. But “we still lack documents and ask the Defence Ministry, the Russian Space Agency and the FSB to provide us with them to obtain a full picture,” the partic­ipants said in a statement.


What really happened on the night of 1–2 February 1959 may never be known, but Dyatlov and his doomed companions are unlikely to be forgotten anytime soon. The area where the group set up their last camp has now been officially named ‘Dyatlov’s Pass’.

If you are right, InGenCorp, it just can not be for the reasons you stated.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 10/17/2011 01:02:43



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DragonEye4


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Tyranno, it took about 5 seconds for me to figure out you were just copy-pasting those big walls of text. At least be honest and quote and source them, instead of pretending you wrote all that yourself.

Tyranno97


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Sorry about that. I wasn't intending for it to look like I had written it all, here's the site; http://www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/1562/the_dyatlov_pass_incident.html


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Patchman1


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Holy mother of spode that is the biggest copy/paste i have ever seen.

*Lurks away*

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Patchman1 is a very bored teenager.

Better than terrorism!
Couldar


Multicellular

Joined: 08/19/2009 20:26:41
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Tyranno97 wrote: Crap, I was soundly beaten.

Eh, I've got nothing more to add really.


I knew finding a "true believer" capable of rational thought was too good to be true....

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InGenCorp


Multicellular

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That, my friend, is an avalanche. It crushes stuff - breaking bones and the like - but, oh, surprise surprise, doesn't cut you.


That, on the other hand, is a vulture. It's a scavenger that goes wherever the dead stuff is, and is known to go for the softest, most nutritious exposed portions of a dead body.

6 Famous Unsolved Mysteries (With Really Obvious Solutions) - Cracked
That, finally, is an article - not on a purely scientific website, true, which is why they have this habit of providing links to sources closer to original material. The article begins with the Dyatlov Pass incident, going through the elements of the "mystery" and pointing out that they either have really obvious causes, or, like the orange lights in the sky, were added to the story later, by people who were never really involved.


Now, on to the Coral Castle: Archimedes Has The Answer
Not to say it was levers precisely, but simple machines can go a long way in moving rocks (just like stuff people make up can go a long way in making a story more mysterious).

Takua01


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All I'm going to say is that it would be nonsense to say that they don't exist (after all, we did find that we weren't the center of the universe a few hundred years ago), but wether or nor they visited Earth is still up for questioning. I just fail to see how humans alone could have come up with the ideas behind the modern rocket. And the time frame of its creation; WWII. We had still just learned how to build airplanes only a few years earlier, and already we're building spacecraft? Doesn't add up if you ask me..

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Couldar


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Takua01 wrote:All I'm going to say is that it would be nonsense to say that they don't exist (after all, we did find that we weren't the center of the universe a few hundred years ago), but wether or nor they visited Earth is still up for questioning. I just fail to see how humans alone could have come up with the ideas behind the modern rocket. And the time frame of its creation; WWII. We had still just learned how to build airplanes only a few years earlier, and already we're building spacecraft? Doesn't add up if you ask me..

Again...argument from ignorance doesn't make anything else more likely...

This is the problem with human egoism I have been trying to explain. You find it hard to believe so it must be something else....
The ideas behind the "modern rocket" wasn't a solitary poof into existence idea. Try looking up the history of rockets, goes back beyond the discovery of gunpowder. The idea of propelling an object through space started when the first rock was thrown.

Just learned to build airplanes a few years prior? Really? Ever hear of Da Vinci? Even without powered airplane flight you can still get to space.

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Hate4Hazor


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qpawesome wrote:
psherman wrote:
qpawesome wrote:REAL!I mean,its gotta be,who else could have shaped our history in such a way?

No,not Hitler

No,not peoples imaginations

No,not pedobear

It,was ALIENS.


You left out the fact that people can shape their own history. :/


(Doublepost,I suck) What about gods,where did they come from?


Hitler is a pop singer, not a bad boy.

no

(Sorry I couldn't resist.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 10/17/2011 16:05:20


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0neBlackBird


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Hate4Hazor wrote:
qpawesome wrote:
psherman wrote:
qpawesome wrote:REAL!I mean,its gotta be,who else could have shaped our history in such a way?

No,not Hitler

No,not peoples imaginations

No,not pedobear

It,was ALIENS.


You left out the fact that people can shape their own history. :/


(Doublepost,I suck) What about gods,where did they come from?


Hitler is a pop singer, not a bad boy.

*snip*

(Sorry I couldn't resist.)


WTF.....

5 stars to you.

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