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EA to Federal Court over DRM!  XML
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StarWarrior


Microbe

Joined: 09/12/2008 01:01:28
Messages: 33
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I can see there's quite a bit of confusion here over the SecuROM DRM.

Everything you should know about SecuROM and what it does is here:
http://www.the-prism.com/index.php

Easy guide to removing SecuROM from your PC - (Only do this if you've completely finished with Spore)
http://reclaimyourgame.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=68&Itemid=40

The main concerns users seem to have is the activations limit, apart from the complete hassle it causes, it can also render your game worthless in the second-hand game market. I see "Amazon" are already selling second-hand DRM infested games, if those games have reached their activation limit, or were refused additional activations, you can bet something big will be hitting the fan about that eventually! So, after purchasing your 'bargain' second-hand DRM game from Amazon, you'll either have a game which will not work at all, or will be required to pay 'again' and buy an extra licence from those nice chaps at EA.

Activations aside, SecuROM is an invasive infestation which can't be uninstalled by normal means at this time. Infact, it overrides administration rights to your computer so it can't be removed by using normal right click methods, it also interferes with programs running under windows to prevent detection, cloaks itself using hidden files, overrides your firewall which creates a huge security hole. SecuROM runs quietly in the background, monitoring your activities even after the software 'it came bundled with' is completely uninstalled from your PC.

Then there's the CD/DVD burner issue. Yes folks, SecuROM loves to disable your hardware drivers and burner software.

Another Malware Trojan, anyone?

I think this class action lawsuit is the tip of the iceberg, there are grounds for countless more against EA and Sony BMG's SecuROM in the future. And don't forget, Sony has already been found guilty for placing this Spyware on music CDs.
Wiki Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Sony_BMG_CD_copy_protection_scandal

Personally, I now boycott anything using this infestation.

Poetry


Multicellular

Joined: 09/09/2008 00:36:56
Messages: 335
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hawkian wrote:They are.

In fact, understanding the issues at play fairly well, I believe the lawsuit will either be dismissed as frivolous or settled vaguely amid EA's ever-relaxing-under-incredible-community-response standards.

But hey, maybe they'll take them for a ride and walk away with millions.

EDIT: In case anyone is concerned, the claim that SecuROM "cannot be uninstalled" is simply not true. You need to have it installed to play Spore, as well as Bioshock and an annoying host of other major releases (Mass Effect?) It can, however, be removed fairly simply upon uninstalling all associated programs.


That will not hold up in a civil court.

You needed to be informed ahead of time it was installing onto your system. Then how to instructions needed to be sent to you about how part of their product is uninstalled within the documents if that is not the case. Online notification via account e-mail would not do in this case as people who have already left the community would be the ones most inclined to remove it and that e-mail cannot be considered valid. It has to be Explicit not assumed. This is the 'warning hot' cup of coffee country, remember.

Plain Letter Laws regarding warnings will catch here more than anything. EA is not fly by night. FTC will be able to pin them down using item presented in this case later. So EA needs to tread carefully. While it states Spore, any changes not made to packages of unreleased software, that comes out after 20 days (or 10 business days whichever sooner)from notice was served goes towards intent. You do not have to make a new package, but a sticker posted on every single box until this is resolved... ouchies.

Frivolous? Dunno, class actions are often looked at with a cautious eye in CA. A personal suit is more likely to be dismissed. With DRM being part of FTC settlements in the past with other media, I'd say parts of the case are solid with merits. If nothing else, other people in other states can file their own, with better re-wording.


edit for a clarification.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 09/25/2008 14:49:35


A Sunrise Happens If You Watch It Or Not
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Poetry


Multicellular

Joined: 09/09/2008 00:36:56
Messages: 335
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antoniojimenez wrote:
hawkian wrote:You can remove it all, down to the registry entires.

You need a microsoft (free) app to do it, since they're defaulted to "non-removable."


The point is hawkian is that you EA should provide a way to remove it from your pc. You shouldn't need to search for a program that will remove it for you. Not everyone who will play spore will know how to find and operate the program.


You are both correct. The point Hawkin has, that will lessen damages on top of product cost. Often in cases like this product cost is the recoup. Damages tend to be mostly legal fees. The refund with a CD/DVD that purges SecurRom from your system might very well be in folks future.



A Sunrise Happens If You Watch It Or Not
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farwalker


Microbe

Joined: 09/25/2008 14:46:00
Messages: 1
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http://www.gametreeonline.com/SporeEULA.pdf

The EULA is not clear and specific as to what it actually is limiting. Vague and confusing language can not be considered legally enforceable in a court of law. This is classic boilerplate.

Without full disclosure there can be no agreement; and therefore, no contract.

"Technical Protection Measures. Our Software uses access
control and copy protection technology. An internet connection
is required to authenticate the Software and verify your license.
If you are not connected to the Internet, you will not be able to
use the Software until you reestablish an internet connection
and verify the license. The first end user of this License can
install and authenticate the Software on a set number of
machines which may vary by product." [in part]

Specifically, there is no language which specifically states that the number of installs is limited to three (3).
Further, it does not disclose the extent to which the software installs verification programs on your computer.

I searched the document the word three is not there.

I am not raising the issue of whether EA has the right to limit what it sells as a limited license; but the issue of lack of disclosure and lack of agreement.

Without full disclosure on the packaging there can be no credible claim of a contract binding the purchaser of a limited license that is up to the whim of the seller.
Ytram


Multicellular

Joined: 09/23/2008 16:30:25
Messages: 102
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jpfrostfox wrote:... While I very much disagree with Hawkian's position, he is allowed to have one ...


Hawkian is telling the truth, so you disagree with the truth? He's obviously a very technical guy, and has already provided the necessary steps to removing SecuROM, which completely refutes the hyperbole in the lawsuit that it cannot be removed without "wiping your hard drive".

He's also obviously not a EA cheerleader or DRM funguy, so you people acting like he is should quit being dense. He's not defending EA, or saying that all parts of the lawsuit do not have merit, he's just pointing out one piece of inaccurate information and correcting it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 09/25/2008 15:18:48


Cysgodi


Multicellular

Joined: 09/09/2008 17:31:54
Messages: 445
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Am I the only one that understand that there are tons of programs that are installed daily in this world and than are uninstalled daily and they leave files behind? Files that the average computer user knows nothing about that does not harm their computer?

This just seems like a huge "THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING" to me.


MatticusUK


Multicellular

Joined: 09/24/2008 11:14:53
Messages: 155
Location:
London

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ytram wrote:

Hawkian is telling the truth, so you disagree with the truth? He's obviously a very technical guy, and has already provided the necessary steps to removing SecuROM, which completely refutes the hyperbole in the lawsuit that it cannot be removed without "wiping your hard drive".

Posssibly the lawsuit is indicating that it is impossible for average pc users to remove it without wiping their hardrive. unless they have the technical knowledge to get rid of it (which is a tricky process i believe)

Either way, that aspect of the allegations needs to be clarified and better researched before they bring it to the next stage for sure.
Cysgodi


Multicellular

Joined: 09/09/2008 17:31:54
Messages: 445
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theultimateend wrote:Does DRM stand for Douchey Responses Mandatory?

Because anytime DRM comes up ya'll start fighting.


They start having intense discussions because the very valid point is, NO ONE outside of SecurROM or Sony knows EXACTLY what this program does or does not do. If someone says they know for CERTAIN what it does they are either not telling the whole truth or work for SecurRom or Sony and are opening their mouth when they shouldn't.

Now that being said I very much stand behind hawkien because he has shown he knows what he's talking about. Everyone else here - and sorry no disrespect intended - seem to be spouting off wild speculation which really has no basis in fact.

As I said above here, there are so many programs that leave behind registry settings and directories when they are uninstall that it's not funny. Do I like DRM? No. But neither do I like people crying wolf when the whole story is not known. Some people love to spread rumors because they like to get people riled up. Before long you have a huge uprising over something that is not entirely understood.

You are more likely to have your identity stolen while doing your online banking than you are having something happen to you because of the DRM that is contained in Spore.


Ickabod


Multicellular

Joined: 09/12/2008 13:37:24
Messages: 252
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Pugnap00 wrote:
matterialize wrote:
"completely wipes their hard drive"


I think they're exaggerating their claim a bit.


yeah alot of it is exagerated. DRM doesnt wipe your hard drive


It says that the only way to remove the DRM is to "completely wipe your hard drive." Serioulsy misquoted here.

Destroying Cuteness through superior Science

http://www.spore.com/view/profile/Ickabod
ausdreamer


Multicellular

Joined: 09/10/2008 17:36:53
Messages: 205
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There is a removal program for it at the official securom site

http://www.securom.com/support_faq.asp

see 36.

The document did not state what steps the person complaining took to find out how to remove it- if they contacted EA/Sony whatever- one would assume they did before filing a court case?




You will not get achievements if you use the cheat console in that game.
To earn achievements you need to start a new game and not use the cheat console.
drtechno


Microbe

Joined: 09/12/2008 21:40:47
Messages: 11
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Where can we sign up to be part of the class ?

Or have they already established class status?
drtechno


Microbe

Joined: 09/12/2008 21:40:47
Messages: 11
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ausdreamer wrote:There is a removal program for it at the official securom site

http://www.securom.com/support_faq.asp



?? Wow.. I am at a loss for words. Why do you think it that program removes SecureROM? Because they TOLD you it does ?? They also didn't tell you its installed in the first place so why on earth do you believe them?

This has already been covered in the Bioshock forums. The 'removal' program simply disables parts SecureROM but does not remove it. It is embedded deep within the OS and removal is nearly impossible. Go research it yourself before being a regurgitating the company line.
Cysgodi


Multicellular

Joined: 09/09/2008 17:31:54
Messages: 445
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drtechno wrote:
ausdreamer wrote:There is a removal program for it at the official securom site

http://www.securom.com/support_faq.asp



?? Wow.. I am at a loss for words. Why do you think it that program removes SecureROM? Because they TOLD you it does ?? They also didn't tell you its installed in the first place so why on earth do you believe them?

This has already been covered in the Bioshock forums. The 'removal' program simply disables parts SecureROM but does not remove it. It is embedded deep within the OS and removal is nearly impossible. Go research it yourself before being a regurgitating the company line.


You tell someone to go research something when all the information is not out there to research. Show me one place where everything stated about SecruRom is completely factual.
chilipep


Microbe

Joined: 09/25/2008 00:46:39
Messages: 11
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A "rootkit" can be described as software or a set of software tools intended to conceal running processes, files or system data from the operating system and which can open ports to allow remote access to the system. A "rootkit" makes it possible for viruses or other malicious programs ("malware") to hide content on a user's PC. In this way, a virus or other malware may remain undetected, even if updated anti-virus software is installed. SecuROMâ„¢ does not use any root kit technology in its implementation.



from the SecuROM website Q and A section.
If you read pages 6-7 of the lawsuit, this is exactly what it alleges the software does so...

Seems it's a case of he said she said and the only way to resolve it is to have computer experts testify and test the software to see what it actually does.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 09/25/2008 16:28:58

Battsknox


Microbe

Joined: 09/12/2008 00:42:01
Messages: 99
Location:
Smoky Mountains

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drtechno wrote:
ausdreamer wrote:There is a removal program for it at the official securom site

http://www.securom.com/support_faq.asp



?? Wow.. I am at a loss for words. Why do you think it that program removes SecureROM? Because they TOLD you it does ?? They also didn't tell you its installed in the first place so why on earth do you believe them?

This has already been covered in the Bioshock forums. The 'removal' program simply disables parts SecureROM but does not remove it. It is embedded deep within the OS and removal is nearly impossible. Go research it yourself before being a regurgitating the company line.

Because it has proven the tool removes ALL traces of secuRom, not because THEY said it.
If you think Spore is the first game with SecuRom, you should really try googling SECUROM
I had to re install Windows on my other puter due to virus (nothing secuRom related, just a 14 yr old downloading videos) and for kicks used the removal tool, and unless the man who built/works on all my puters is an idiot...The SecuRom/rootkit/registry entries (whatever you want say) were GONE. Then I reinstalled Windows and reinstalled Sims 2 BV and used the tool to remove it again, just for kicks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 09/25/2008 16:37:53

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