If you're even remotely aware of science and astronomy, you've surely heard of black holes, but does anyone know how big they can get?

The vast majority of these objects are only a few solar masses, formed from the spectacular implosion of the universe's biggest stars. Massive, yes, but nothing compared to the true kings.

At the center of many galaxies you can find objects of such inconceivable mass that they defy conventional models of black hole formation and life cycle. These "supermassive" black holes can have millions of solar masses packed into a sphere the radius of Neptune's orbit or less.

Sagittarius A* at the heart of our own galaxy is an impressive 4.31 million times the mass of the sun



If you look a little further away though, you'll find something even more preposterous...

At the heart of the eliptical galaxy known only as NGC 4889 you'll find an object estimated to have the mass of 21 billion suns.



That's more mass than some entire galaxies collapsed into a single object.

So Sporelings, I ask you this:

How do you think such an object can form? Is it simple accretion of mass over a 13 billion year lifespan? A chance encounter between several (relatively) smaller objects? Or did these massive objects take shape in the early days of the universe and amass their galaxies later?

What do you think it looks like from a relatively safe distance?

And before you start to feel inadequate, be glad that our galaxy doesn't quite match up to the big guys. The biggest black holes in the universe are known to bathe their galaxies in lethal x-ray radiation. Life made it on Earth because our galactic core and our neighbors are a little better behaved than some.

Some poor aliens probably weren't so lucky

I'm sure black holes hold much, much mass. I can imagine a black hole bigger then others sucking in smaller black holes to grow big in a "small" about of time. But, of course, a black hole can just grow enormous over millions of years, if not billions. I'm sure that would have to be a very lucky black hole to be able to grow that big.

Well, given all the mass in the universe, I.e. everything, a black hole could only theoretically get as big (or in this case very, very tiny and very, very heavy) as all the mass in the universe. However, according to quantum physics, it would be limited by how much matter would be siphoned off to random locations by wormholes, which are tears or rips in space time. (One could call the wrinkles too, but the product is the same) and they only happen in negative mass zones or high mass zones. Also, if you believe in the big bang, the entire universe was a black hole that tore itself apart, by, none other than wormholes, in fact, according to some theories, we can’t even see all of the matter from the big bang, some of it may have been blasted into other dimensions. And that is as far as I can go without dwindling into the realm of quantum physics, which is mostly conjecture at this point.

Honestly, I've never been one fer learnin' and Science. I tried to do it, but mah brains just keep givin' in to mah stupidity. I personally just like to look at these things in wonder. I marvel at the beauty of the galaxy and it astonishes me to think of how it all came to pass. Whether you believe that a God made it or if it was the result of an explosion, it matters not. This is truly a beautiful thing to ponder upon and admire. Especially since we were lucky enough to have the galaxy we live in that isn't pounded with radiation like this one. Even if we would grown extra arms randomly, I prefer to watch this from a distance and admire its beauty rather than figure out why it is so amazing.

And it's freakin' huge. That's pretty cool too.

Conjecture time:
I personally believe that ‘God’ whoever that may be, created the universe using a ‘big bang’ because how else are you going to create that much stuff, it’s not like you’re going to spend time on each, individual, boson when you can just make it all at once. Also there is the theory that the universe, (as farfetched as it may seem) is a living thing, because of its ‘pulse’ which would be the flipping of quarks on the quantum foam, which, if something could harness their power, make a gigantic brain, capable of any calculation. <-- you could call that God, if you wanted, but since it would control all the quarks, then it could control all matter and then it could control your mind.

God-mod wrote:Conjecture time:
I personally believe that ‘God’ whoever that may be, created the universe using a ‘big bang’ because how else are you going to create that much stuff

With magic.

OneBlackbird wrote:

God-mod wrote:Conjecture time:
I personally believe that ‘God’ whoever that may be, created the universe using a ‘big bang’ because how else are you going to create that much stuff

With magic.

And an iPad.

OneBlackbird wrote:

God-mod wrote:Conjecture time:
I personally believe that ‘God’ whoever that may be, created the universe using a ‘big bang’ because how else are you going to create that much stuff

With magic.

Only if you're a Connecticut Yankee.

I myself have no idea. Could be anything. What I CAN say about the matter is this.
Those poor aliens!

God-mod wrote:Well, given all the mass in the universe, I.e. everything, a black hole could only theoretically get as big (or in this case very, very tiny and very, very heavy) as all the mass in the universe. However, according to quantum physics, it would be limited by how much matter would be siphoned off to random locations by wormholes, which are tears or rips in space time. (One could call the wrinkles too, but the product is the same) and they only happen in negative mass zones or high mass zones. Also, if you believe in the big bang, the entire universe was a black hole that tore itself apart, by, none other than wormholes, in fact, according to some theories, we can’t even see all of the matter from the big bang, some of it may have been blasted into other dimensions. And that is as far as I can go without dwindling into the realm of quantum physics, which is mostly conjecture at this point.

Wormholes are entirely theoretical at this point in time. Quantum Physics isn't though, hence why it is a theory.

Black Holes are amazing, and confusing at the same time. Just mind boggling. Here are some Bits and bobs on Black holes. They just blow my mind.
-Black Holes losing Mass (Hawking Radiation) (Most simplified and easily understandable explanation I could find.)
-Information Paradox (this one's quite advanced, but it explains Black Hole Evaporation, quite well, being detailed enough yet not bogged by terminology. It's really interesting if you can get your head around it.)


Anyway, In relation to Slyth's OP, i think it's likely that this is just a really old Black hole, that's had time to accrete alot, and was probably formed in a fairly dense part of the universe, so has accreted more mass than may have escaped. If it keeps pulling in Galaxies, like it's next unfortunate victim it might get even more massive.

ashkelon wrote:

OneBlackbird wrote:

God-mod wrote:Conjecture time:
I personally believe that ‘God’ whoever that may be, created the universe using a ‘big bang’ because how else are you going to create that much stuff

With magic.

Only if you're a Connecticut Yankee.

In King Arthur's Court, yes. Only if that is so.

God-mod wrote:Well, given all the mass in the universe, I.e. everything, a black hole could only theoretically get as big (or in this case very, very tiny and very, very heavy) as all the mass in the universe. However, according to quantum physics, it would be limited by how much matter would be siphoned off to random locations by wormholes, which are tears or rips in space time. (One could call the wrinkles too, but the product is the same) and they only happen in negative mass zones or high mass zones. Also, if you believe in the big bang, the entire universe was a black hole that tore itself apart, by, none other than wormholes, in fact, according to some theories, we can’t even see all of the matter from the big bang, some of it may have been blasted into other dimensions. And that is as far as I can go without dwindling into the realm of quantum physics, which is mostly conjecture at this point.

The primordial singularity wasn't the same as a black hole. A black hole exists within a medium (spacetime) that allows it to exert a force on other objects. The primordial singularity did not necessarily have the same ability.

Wormholes, negative mass, closed spacetime loops, and multidimensional theories are still unproven and unobserved. There are solutions to the unifying theory that do not permit their existence.

Personally, I suspect that these supergiants are extremely ancient, having formed in the very early days of the universe from very dense, very hot clouds of matter (and perhaps dark matter and even anti-matter that was formed from the initial baryogenesis). All the stars and ellipses and spirals that surround them came into being later, the universe was a very dark place at the time, illuminated only by the glow of plasmas spiraling towards these new black holes.

I know like barely anything about astronomy, do don't stone me for this.

Well, I get what you're saying with the amount of material and all, but what about Dark matter? it's so dense that no light escapes it. If a black hole appeared in an area with a lot of DM, then wouldn't it eventually suck in the Dark matter, which has an extremely high density?

MaxxToron wrote:I know like barely anything about astronomy, do don't stone me for this.

Well, I get what you're saying with the amount of material and all, but what about Dark matter? it's so dense that no light escapes it. If a black hole appeared in an area with a lot of DM, then wouldn't it eventually suck in the Dark matter, which has an extremely high density?

The exact physical properties of dark matter are unknown. It is inferred only by its gravitational force and in a few very rare cases by obscuring light from another source.

A black hole, for all its mass and photon crushing fury, is still bound by the laws of physics. As long as you do not cross the event horizon it is possible to form a stable orbit around it. Nearly all matter in the galaxy is orbiting the black hole at the center, not actually falling in. This includes the dark matter bands that circle the galaxy.