If you thought only Americans and the third world hated science, our friends across the (bigger) pond have decided to remove most references to evolution from their high school curriculum.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=south-korea-surrenders-creationist-demands

The campaign was led by the Society for Textbook Revise (STR), which aims to delete the “error” of evolution from textbooks to “correct” students’ views of the world, according to the society’s website. The society says that its members include professors of biology and high-school science teachers.

The STR is also campaigning to remove content about “the evolution of humans” and “the adaptation of finch beaks based on habitat and mode of sustenance”, a reference to one of the most famous observations in Charles Darwin’s On the Origin of Species.

Sets a bad precedent for similar movements in some of the states, some of whom are not on good terms with the scientific community already.

*facepalm* It will never cease to amaze me how many people think we all poped out of thin air. I can understand perfectly believing in God or a god because I do, but I have the logic to realize that if we all came from just two people (who only had sons btw) that we'd all be horribly deformed. Even if Adam and Eve had daughters the inbreeding would have had the same effect as it does today.

And believing that God is an all-knowing and wise being, clearly he would of had this forsight and used evolution to create us. If he even set out purposely to create us that is. I'm not so full of pride to think that we are the center of his attention.

VampiressTrinity wrote:*facepalm* It will never cease to amaze me how many people think we all poped out of thin air. I can understand perfectly believing in God or a god because I do, but I have the logic to realize that if we all came from just two people (who only had sons btw) that we'd all be horribly deformed. Even if Adam and Eve had daughters the inbreeding would have had the same effect as it does today.

And believing that God is an all-knowing and wise being, clearly he would of had this forsight and used evolution to create us. If he even set out purposely to create us that is. I'm not so full of pride to think that we are the center of his attention.

Actually, there were other people, just not the ones belonging to the story. When Cain left after killing Able, he found other people to marry into who were presumably not the daughters of Lilith

They saved the inbreeding for Lot's unfortunate daughters. *snort*

You know, the Catholic Church supports evolution.

ashkelon wrote:

They saved the inbreeding for Lot's unfortunate daughters. *snort*

Ya I heard of that story too. There's so much in the Bible that makes me wonder why anyone would worship a deity like that claiming him to be good.

GENESIS 19:6- In Sodom, Lot’s home was assaulted by a homosexual mob seeking to have relations with two angels. Lot volunteered his virgin daughters to the crowd, saying "you can do what you like with them" as long as the guests are left alone. After offering his children to be raped, Lot was then appointed by God as worthy of rescue from Sodom’s destruction.

I mean WTF?

grindstone wrote:You know, the Catholic Church supports evolution.

This I like.

grindstone wrote:You know, the Catholic Church supports evolution.

There are more than just christians active in South Korea. What about the Buddhists and Shinto?

The whole makes my skin crawl. Mostly because people under threat tend to strip themselves down to fundamentalist ideology -- not just religious, but economic and political.

Think about the USA during the depression...

VampiressTrinity wrote:

ashkelon wrote:

They saved the inbreeding for Lot's unfortunate daughters. *snort*

Ya I heard of that story too. There's so much in the Bible that makes me wonder why anyone would worship a deity like that claiming him to be good.

GENESIS 19:6- In Sodom, Lot’s home was assaulted by a homosexual mob seeking to have relations with two angels. Lot volunteered his virgin daughters to the crowd, saying "you can do what you like with them" as long as the guests are left alone. After offering his children to be raped, Lot was then appointed by God as worthy of rescue from Sodom’s destruction.

I mean WTF?

Oh, I meant later, in the wilderness, after mommy was turned into salt. According to the story, Lots daughters decided they would never have any kids, just wandering in the wilderness with daddy. So they got him drunk and.... You can piece together the rest.

Actually it always sounded like a "good excuse" for some good ol' patriarchal hanky-panky.

My uncle actually told me about that bit as we were discussing the Bible one day. He's an atheist that took the time to read the whole book. I've simply looked up the worst and best parts of it when I was curious trying to sort out what I believe in. Needless to say I was like "nope."

H just don't understand why they'd take out one of the most important parts of biology from student's minds.

RileySoto wrote:H just don't understand why they'd take out one of the most important parts of biology from student's minds.

Because we'll all burn if you don't believe! *cough* At least that's what they think.

I woudln't expect South Korea to have yielded. It seems sharing a border with the highly miltaristic, territorial and aggressive communist North Korea, possibly armed with nuclear weaponry, is nothing compared ot the pressure of a group of Fundamentalists with petitions and lobby groups. But seriously Osuth Korea is one of the last places i would've expected.

Fortunately in the UK we're pretty safe from fundamentalists, our scientific establishment and tradition has enough standing to defend itself for the most part. Darwin's a fairly integral part of the syllabus, and long may it remain that way. The only acknowledgement of creationism our textbook gives is a reluctant: "However, not all people agree with the theory of evolution, and some believe life was created by a god" Go Britain. We have a fundamentalist in our class, awesome guy, but he looked a little awkward when we did the evolution module. He was outnumbered about 30 to 1.

VampiressTrinity wrote:My uncle actually told me about that bit as we were discussing the Bible one day. He's an atheist that took the time to read the whole book. I've simply looked up the worst and best parts of it when I was curious trying to sort out what I believe in. Needless to say I was like "nope."

My father, who was one of the most intelligent and astute people I've ever known, went to church boarding school. He was an agnostic with a serious education in scripture. I was brought up pagan, and my sons as well. I knew before I went to school how to split genesis into the 3 1/2 voices that run concurrently (it's much more intelligible that way), and I got the the bible in depth, with Josephus on the side to cross check.

I'm still pagan (not neo-).

I still think the problem with the denial of science is reactionary behaviour born out of pervasive fear on a national level. We've had many years of the country being run by government balancing greed and fear on the personal level. And the stupidity like the denial of evolution shows. When I was in school both creationism and evolution were taught the same week. We were allowed to attend or abstain from lectures as we chose.

The whole idea of taking creationism seriously enough to excuse people from class bothered me in the 70's, even though anyone who left class was considered pretty much out there. The only ones who left were Mennonites who came to school in a carriage.

To see that become mainstream? *Shiver*

G1s26 wrote:I woudln't expect South Korea to have yielded. It seems sharing a border with the highly miltaristic, territorial and aggressive communist North Korea, possibly armed with nuclear weaponry, is nothing compared ot the pressure of a group of Fundamentalists with petitions and lobby groups.

The reason they gave in is when there is pressure from outside, people do become reactionary and move to the ideas of the past for comfort. It's not because the fundamentalists are stronger, but because there is psychological stability in moving ideologically backward, and calling on god for protection. Like deathbed conversions.

My family used to go to church. My dad was/is Catholic and my mother Lutheran. We stopped though when I was around 5 so my only memories of it are that it was strange and very boring. I had a friend this year that refused to play a song in our orchestra concert this year simply because part of it sounded like "Bad Romance" from Lady GaGa. She's is also the friend that puzzled me when she said evolution makes no sense. How is us poping out of nowhere sound better? But I digress.

VampiressTrinity wrote:She's is also the friend that puzzled me when she said evolution makes no sense.

I've found over the years that the vast majority of people who doubt evolution don't really understand it. They're not grasping the fundamental concepts of the theory and it's no surprise that they're not ready to accept it as fact.

I figured she didn't but I did not try to pursue it because she's pretty devout and one that's angered easily in a debate. Sometimes I wonder if it's not so much people not understanding but just simply being to prideful to admit that their ancestors may have been a lesser lifeform. Evolution in a nutshell is just a lifeform mutates, passes the change to their offspring, and rinse and repeat. I can't imagine every non-believer not at least understanding that. Of course I pick things up easily so i could be wrong.

Edit: spelling corrections.