ChrisDad wrote:i think the way a game shows how it is not up to standards is it lets u stay in one place for eternity and nothing would happen.

yeah, the game itself mirrors ID, not evolution, which is sort of sad, because they said it as based on the latter.

on an added note, and i am sorry for it being off-topic, HAPPY 3000th POST ASHLOC! i hope the ultra violent light doesn't get ya!

LordMeakin wrote:Its a she Dragonspout
There should be a section for Creationists:
Creationism so they go over there and we stay here....

And then a "Warzone" forum section....

That actually woudn't be so bad. The warzone section, I like it! JK

Well not being up to the standards of evolution has been something I and others have been pointing out about spore since the day it was released.

Not much they can do now. Maxis made their bed now they can swim in the mountain of money from people who like simple games.

I don't want to argue. Though I don't agree with it, I can think in evolutionary terms.

I have been wondering. If that is true, why do we have so few children?

A few possibilities came to mind. Something so complex takes alot of energy, and if the parent dies the whole process was useless. Another is that as sentients, we can then better care for the one child and it can learn more, increasing its survival chance.

Those are just my ideas. You have any?

I can't remember where I heard this, but I heard that mammals reproduce in numbers equivalent to half the number of mammary glands they have. So humans usually have one child, but can occasionally have two (that way, there's never a shortage of the food supply). And opossums have 13 mammaries, so usually have 6-9 babies.

Of course, that only applies to mammals (and marsupials). It has no relevance to reptiles, birds, amphibians, insects, etc.

Ashloc, a question. Talking about astronomy is okay for this thread, since it's relevant to Spore? I'm just asking to make sure that the topics won't be limited to one aspect of science.

sparrior09 wrote:Ashloc, a question. Talking about astronomy is okay for this thread, since it's relevant to Spore? I'm just asking to make sure that the topics won't be limited to one aspect of science.

Well in general the thread is about Evolution and Abiogenesis, However I relate those topics not in whats contained within the theories themselves but to other theories such as cosmology and geology.

I mean seriously if you take it back evolution started roughly 3.8 bilion years ago and thats a geological timescale.

There are other theories or hypothesis's like Panspermia which involves life or life building material from space so aslong as it can relate to spore in some way I am okay with it.

If a Spore master isn't then we will have to listen to them.

However inspite the title I did leave to door open for geology , cosmology and other scientific feilds.

Oh, okay. I forgot to look at the title. Thanks for the reply.

leestriter wrote:I don't want to argue. Though I don't agree with it, I can think in evolutionary terms.

I have been wondering. If that is true, why do we have so few children?

A few possibilities came to mind. Something so complex takes alot of energy, and if the parent dies the whole process was useless. Another is that as sentients, we can then better care for the one child and it can learn more, increasing its survival chance.

Those are just my ideas. You have any?

that's sort of it

the basic reproduction strategies are
1 make as many offspring as possible
2 invest a lot of resouces in a small number of offspring

strategy one hopes that shear numbers will ensure survival, strategy two works on the basis that the offspring are more fit or better taken care of.


Also keep in mind that many things in evolution are tradeoffs. For example walking upright frees our hands to manipulate things more easily but to walk fully erect out pelvis could only be so wide and as a result we give birth to underdeveloped offspring because if the head was larger or the bones in the skull fully joined it wouldn't work.

so our children are extremely dependent and require a great deal of care, I'm not sure that is the reason but it occured to me as a possible reason. That sort of thing could provide an evolutonary pressure that favors human ancestors that produced fewer offspring and thus could devote more resources and time to the offspring they had. Of course to support this we'd need to look for evidence that our ancestors produced more offspring before they began to transition to walking upright.

There is also a ton of detrimental or half functional stuff that served a purpose once upon a time floating around in our genome.

I think spore should've had much more evolution in it and if spore 2 is ever released, then it should reflect this want from the fans. I was hoping to have a game where your animal changed itself as it evolved. For example, if the animal was a herbivore and needed strong legs and/or wings to get to high fruit, then it would evolve these in the next generation. If the animal was protecting itself from predators, then it could develop spikes. Also, if the planet's surface is purple and the animal is green, it could slowly evolve to have purple skin/fur/feathers.

If I was designing the game, I would've at least tried to put these features in rather than the joke they ended up with. I can understand the need for a creature creator if a user wanted to start at tribal stage or later, adn I enjoy the building/vehicle creators. What I could never understand was why you could pick and choose various parts of your creature. If they dumbed the game down to stop any religious controversy, then that is a real shame, as the game had so much potential.

Playing evolution would've been very boring , but Sim Earth which Spore was often likened to (and is another of Wills creations) DID have a sort've evolution, which I feel could've been applied to the planet ecologies, at the very least in creature phase.

In sim earth creatures would occasionally mutate which would then apply at a level of natural selection; if the mutation allowed them to outcompete the other critters in the environment they'd thrive, if it didn't they'd die out. The player could interject at any point and change a creature or make a new one.

THIS is how I thought space phase would play out (while creature phase essentially gave you single a creature to control to your will within certain parameters), with the creatures possessing a living ecology which you could use your superior technology to interject and play god with, resculpting the planets, their eco-system and species in the same way you did in Sim Earth and I don't see why it wouldn't have been a viable idea.

See for evolution in Spore think they could have blended the creative aspect with something closer to evolution then what they had.

For my example I will start in a creature stage senario. I will try to detail how you could have both a creative and scientific experience with spore. I am sorry if this doesn't end up in an order I am writing this kinda off the top of my head.

First give the Player 2 Styles of play.

Freestyle Mode

Spore as it is now with complete creative control given to the player. This mode of play is easy and all gameplay is as Spore is currently. This would basically be the Easy mode of the game.

Natural Selection Mode


Player has limited control over creatures appearance


The starting form of the creature you wish to play can be player generated or random .

This Mode of play will start with the player selecting the following.

What Environment to start in, Forest, Mountain, Arid desert, swamp, Plains Etc.

Then the player can select the Creature Type : Mammal, Reptile Etc or Even go further back and start as a cell and walk it through to this point.

Traits. you can select a few traits at the beginning to give a helpful push in a direction you think might be helpful.

Once the game starts you have to begin competing with your own species as well as other species in the area.

Your goal is to Breed and pass on your genes.

You must protect your young until they reach the age of maturity and then again the selection window will open up with the next generation displayed. IN the display you can view each of the young and select the one that you think has the best chance of survival in the environment your in.

You can select which line of several randomly generated forms produced each generation.

Each of your young will have a slight difference.

After you select which offspring you wish to play you can spend, Morphology point or mutation points to make slight changes to this generations skeleton , color or even add traits that will allow you to grow new parts.

Example: You want your creature to have horns, Instead of adding horns like we do now. you can add the mutation trait for horns and give a small mound on the skull. Each generation after that will begin to exagerate this trait.

This would work by entering the editor and spending these mutation points to select from a trait menu. Instead of dragging whole body parts you are selecting DNA mutations.

Now you do not have to enter the editor and can allow the game to randomly select all mutations and leave the creature as it is given when the generations are first created before you select which to play.


If you die the traits of the generation your playing are not passed on and you return to the selection process.

Your goal in natural selection mode is to guide the animal through a series of generations.

Your intelligence will be influenced by diet and social interaction with your own species. As well as spending Mutation points gained through completing goals like , forming a hunting pack, defeating a rival for mating rights or other such quests.

How you react to others of your own species will determine if your a solitary or pack animal.

You will be able to fight for mating rights to pass on your genes or have to develop mating rituals, Dance or song etc.

Again you must protect your young until they reach the age of maturity and then again the selection window will open up with the next generation displayed. IN the display you can view each of the young and select the one that you think has the best chance of survival in the environment your in.

A hint menu will let you know the environment your currently in and give a recomendation of which of the offspring is best suited. However if you choose another there is nothing stopping you from moving to a new area or changing your environment.

For example: Your world might go into an ice age or get hit by a comet etc and the environment will randomly be affaceted. Disease, Low birth rates etc. This mode of play will place the player in direct competion for food, mates and territory.

This is what I have so far. Ill come and clean it up later.


One your creature have achieved a certine level of intellienge your creature will be able to minipulate more in the environment. Making more complex nests or even simple tools out of sticks and branches.

the Game will continue to challenge you by making you compete with others of your own species are other species as well as environmental changes.

Once your creature reaches a certine level of intelligence you can slowly begin the transition to culture stage.

At this point your able to teach more advanced skills to your offspring such as how to use simple tools or make nests. As your creatures continue to evolve and use more complex commands and teach skills the game will expand its menu of options.

Your intelligence factor will allow your creature to become aware of more things such as the change in seasons and when herds of animals you hunt or plants you eat will be in abundance. Becoming more successful at timing these changes you can then start to make shelters and more complex tools to hunt and or gather food.

Once your creature starts hunting and gathering you have not technically entered a primative form of tribal mode.

TRIBAL STAGE

Now your goals onlt slightly change as the options expand. Now you can play out a generation that evolves slower because the time scale between these generations will slow.

Now your species is about to form more cohesive parties and small nomad bands that have limited ability to hunt and kill animals for food and clothing as well as find and gather stockpiles of food.

You can secure mates now by either competing with dominate males or through acts of social interaction or a combination of factors. Where in creature stage you would fight for mates or compete through ritual now the ritual is more about what you can offer a mate.

As your species becomes more dominate on the planet and spreads out you might encounter others of your kind who have reached this stage. Battling for territor or reasources or cooperating will guide your species towards a form of Culture mode.

Again the transition is smooth and I am unsure now how I would set the prereqs for what counts.

Likely population. Once you reach this stage of play you can become a settled species and form a culture.

Culture MODE

Reasources will become availiable to your species and now you can select both new skills(techs) and minor mutations. Again in this stage the passage of time has slowed.

Culture mode will allow your race to start designing more complex buildings and tools and weapons.
Also in this mode you will start to take on the roll more like city stage. You are no longer playing just as a pack leader or cheif you are a king or other form of leader.

At this stage you can select an option to add a cultural discription.

This stage will also allow you to select a few more options.

for example:

Culture Type: When you open this menu it will show you the recomended type based off your style of play so far.
Or you can select another and redirect your races culture in a new direction.

Culture types could be , Religious, Industrious, Warmongers, Philosophers etc or a combination of three in order of importance.

If you select a religion you will be given the option of taking a premade template or Writing the details of your own and then selecting from a menu option you want to influence your religion.

Example: Does your religion practise sacrifices or not, Does it believe in multipul gods etc.

Culture stage will end when your Species reachs an industrial revolution. Once this happens you enter Nation Stage.

Nation stage is much the same but more complex and opens up more options again.

I am trying to keep this ordered well but I am going to stop here for now and try to flesh out some details.



Note: At all points in the game your race continues to go through small changes and challenges such as environmental,disease etc. You are able to enter the editor and make minor changes still.

At some point of advancement your race will master genetics and you will be allowed at this point to make sweeping changes your race( maybe)

@ Ashloc
WHOA! you should have been part of Maxis! that's a great idea! can't wait to hear more!

If only.

Sadly, it is not to be. They will never make something so sophisticated or complicated. We must turn to other developers. And now that Will's gone, Maxis will slowly move away from the complication that first created SimCity and sims 1.