theultimateend wrote:

jpfrostfox wrote:I think it is limited because it could be exploited as value carries over from cell to creature stage.

From creature -> civ you don't really have that issue so it was left open so that players could continue to develop the creature until they were satisfied.

Who the hell does exploitations effect but the only person playing?

If I want to ruin my game that should be my decision.

That's whatcha got cheat codes for.

jpfrostfox wrote:
Otherwise you could just keep going in cell stage, load up the organism with dozens of jets, fins etc, and then sell them off in the creature stage... thus leading to an imbalance in the game.

If you want to exploit the game you should be able to. It's not like it's multiplayer.

Yes. And anyway, the alleged "exploiting the game" we're talking about is just having the freedom to add a few more parts in Cell. Not what I'd call "exploiting." But the point is valid. That's why we need a cheat to drop the DNA ban.
There shouldn't have been a ban in the first place though.

The whole thing with making you go on made me really angry, I thought well even if I can't get more DNA at least I can still swim around at switch around parts, but then I was rudely made to go on.
A underwater expansion would be awesome!! that was one of the games original attractions to me, but it was eventually cut out....way to go Will.

Well, actually you can keep playing and switch parts. You can make a whole new cell from scratch, since there's no consequence of your earlier design decisions, and you can even change your path from herbivore to predator after it's already told you to go on to Creature.

But that's not the point. You can do these things but only in the static, boring aftermath mode, where nothing ever changes, you can't get any more DNA or meet new creatures or increase in size or find new parts, etc. etc.

For all practical purposes the phase is actually forcing the real gameplay into this incredibly brief spurt, however much you can keep swimming around aimlessly afterward.

(Incidentally, they really could have let you increase in size indefinitely, so that you'd keep seeing new creatures--it's not like adding a few dozen more cells to your body each time is going to even bring you up to the macroscopic level, realistically. And even if you didn't actually increase in size, they could just introduce the new creatures directly. Sharing, anyone?)

jpfrostfox wrote:I think it is limited because it could be exploited as value carries over from cell to creature stage.

Exploited how exactly? The worst that would happen is someone goes into Creature Phase a couple extra Rank 1 skills. Now, if multiple parts stacked, I could see a problem, but that's not the case.

If someone wants to swim around as a cell gathering a few extra points of DNA so they can experiment with various cell designs, I don't see a problem. Once you go to Creature Phase, DNA gain is a LOT faster anyway.

jpfrostfox wrote:
Otherwise you could just keep going in cell stage, load up the organism with dozens of jets, fins etc, and then sell them off in the creature stage... thus leading to an imbalance in the game.

There would be no imbalance at all; in creature stage, you can get far mroe than enough DNA to max out your creature's complexity limit with hundreds, if not thousands, of DNA to spare. The limit merely MAYBE keeps the opening of the creature phase from being too simple. However, it's a single player game; why not let players invest more time in one portion to make simpler another portion? makes sense. It all comes out in a wash by the end of the creature stage anyways.

jpfrostfox wrote:I think it is limited because it could be exploited as value carries over from cell to creature stage.

minionjoe wrote:Exploited how exactly? The worst that would happen is someone goes into Creature Phase a couple extra Rank 1 skills. Now, if multiple parts stacked, I could see a problem, but that's not the case.

If someone wants to swim around as a cell gathering a few extra points of DNA so they can experiment with various cell designs, I don't see a problem. Once you go to Creature Phase, DNA gain is a LOT faster anyway.

DavidKris:
I think the feared exploit is that if you got enough DNA to put 8 jets on your cell that when you got to creature phase you could immediately sell all those jets and use that DNA to buy better parts (get both the +2 strike and the +2 spit).

I on the other hand, would like to continue earning DNA so I can put on these extra parts -- not because I want to trade them for DNA, but rather that I want to decorate my creature with multiple flagella or have a mane created with cilia and not have to sell them back to purchase legs, arms or feet.

One of the things I like about the creature creator is that you can easily decorate a character with lots of detail or weapon parts, but doing this in game with a evolved creature is a lot less fun. Sure you can continue gathering DNA at the end of creature stage so you can do the decorations, but I preferr to play the stage with a more decorated creature.

What I would like to see is that when additional copies of parts already on the creature be available at a reduced cost (since these extra parts do not change the creature's attributes/abilities).

davidkris wrote:What I would like to see is that when additional copies of parts already on the creature be available at a reduced cost (since these extra parts do not change the creature's attributes/abilities).

Extremely good point. This should definitely be implemented, if they're not going to ever change the stat system.

On a related note, I've always thought that you should get less when selling parts than you paid to buy them, so there's at least some kind of incentive to keep a coherent evolutionary path. Cheaper prices for parts in the same series would help too. These measures wouldn't at all prevent you from making whatever you wanted, with slightly more DNA gathering, but they'd give a bit more feeling of meaning to the path you take (as compared to the amount of that feeling you get now, which is zero.)

And that point about selling back Cell parts to get a DNA boost is really so trivial. If it was a problem, just put a cap on how much you can get from selling Cell parts. This should not have given them 5 seconds of consideration compared to the issue of whether we're allowed to play the phases we want to play (for more than a few rushed moments.) The same kind of point applies generally to Tribe and Civ as well.

I still haven't found any sandboxes lying around with this game. It's more like a forced march across a sandy desert.

sredni wrote: I always wonder where those maxis cell creatures with spikes all over their bodies, multiple mouths, and jet movement parts coming out the wazoo get all their dna when I can barely afford to stick a single spike, 1 mouth, and a couple movement parts on.

QFT- the other critters in cell stage CHEAT! There's a lot of your "competition" cells that obviously have access to much larger DNA stockpiles than the players can get.

Joker badge for Maxis!

I think the feared exploit is that if you got enough DNA to put 8 jets on your cell that when you got to creature phase you could immediately sell all those jets and use that DNA to buy better parts (get both the +2 strike and the +2 spit).

Easy fix- make t so that when you hit the "evolve to Land" button, your DNA drops to 100 max, and if you have parts on your cell that would put you over the 100-DNA limit, they get automatically removed until you are at 100 total (parts plus banked DNA). Alternately, when you enter the land-creature editor for the first time, strip all parts off the body and start with 100 DNA and a blob.

spongb6f1 wrote:Honestly, this DNA limit is the most arbitrary and punitive way I can think of to kill any shred of a "sandbox" element to this phase. What is the point?
Cell is very fun for a fleeting moment, and then the hand of Wright comes down and rudely smacks you into the Creature phase....
You already have the option of advancing to Creature. Why force it??

lmfao "before the hand of Wright comes down and rudely smacks you into the creature phase"

that was great i want to remember that line forever

i completely agree this game is rushing you from the start to the space phase i dont know about you but if i were a single cell organisim the last thought on my mind is getting to space as fast as possible! i have tried to ignore the fact that i dont collect dna anymore and continue playing the cell phase but its so hard they dont offer any more real food if your a herbivore at the end and not to mention its always the same cells, we need the cell creator and to be able to trade cells and to have them procedurally mixed into the cell phase to add diversity, as it stands right now if you have played thru the cell phase once as a herbivore, carnivore, and omnivore you have no more use in playing it ever again its the same thing every time same cells same enemies same everything, for a game that boasts that you will never know what you will run into in the game, the cell phase stands to differ! this needs to be changed big time, i have also beaten the cell phase in under 8 minutes without ever evolving once thats how pathetically easy and short it is i swear its so sad that such a fun portion of the game can be lacking in so many ways

spongb6f1 wrote:

davidkris wrote:What I would like to see is that when additional copies of parts already on the creature be available at a reduced cost (since these extra parts do not change the creature's attributes/abilities).

Extremely good point. This should definitely be implemented, if they're not going to ever change the stat system.

On a related note, I've always thought that you should get less when selling parts than you paid to buy them, so there's at least some kind of incentive to keep a coherent evolutionary path. Cheaper prices for parts in the same series would help too. These measures wouldn't at all prevent you from making whatever you wanted, with slightly more DNA gathering, but they'd give a bit more feeling of meaning to the path you take (as compared to the amount of that feeling you get now, which is zero.)

And that point about selling back Cell parts to get a DNA boost is really so trivial. If it was a problem, just put a cap on how much you can get from selling Cell parts. This should not have given them 5 seconds of consideration compared to the issue of whether we're allowed to play the phases we want to play (for more than a few rushed moments.) The same kind of point applies generally to Tribe and Civ as well.

I still haven't found any sandboxes lying around with this game. It's more like a forced march across a sandy desert.

LOL! I should say.

My favorite, own idea is to add a multicellular stage: you would still have the same Cap - but with sharing of cells (good ideas folks) - except then would once again be a tiny thing in the water.

As for sandboxes, I feel halfway between that and what you just said; sort of like a volunteered-for "march across a sandy desert". Still-wild Legions, anyone? (Certainly not Foreign; no-body volunteers for that anymore - "too many" individuals)

IM HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM!! its so annoying


I had the same thing in creature phase , but when the patch came i could go on playing in creature , still earning dna , still have the problem with cell phase tho hope to see it fixed too