mflux wrote:*Deep breath*

(...)

I'll give a few theories on why the above design was avoided. Perhaps there is fear that the Sporepedia would end up full of creatures that were insanely fast, or impossible to kill (ruining other people's experiences). There might be glitches found in the skeletal system allowing some creature exploits. Perhaps there was fear that eventually some "optimal" creature design would be found, and that every creature would end up being some variation of that "perfect creature".

(...)

I know you don't agree (as you later stated) that what you said there was enough reason not to have morphology matter on SPORE, but let me make some considerations about the specific points I quoted.

About the Sporepedia getting filled with deadly and possibly exploited creatures, you already answered how the player could control content that gets into his game. Furthermore, I'd like to point out that some of those deadly designs would be quite a welcome addition to some players (particularly the challenge-driven ones).

About the finding of the "optimal creature design" (or even more than one, since the game would work with many variables of fitness), I believe you may be very right. It would happen, and a lot of players would want to use it (them).

Nonetheless, I don't think it would impact SPORE that much. Finding the "perfect" design would be a challenge, but not the challenge. Futhermore, said design would have a very likely chance of not pleasing a lot of people (even if only for the aestetic characteristics).

But the most important thing is: playing with the "perfect" creature would get boring fast, specially when you consider multiple playthroughs. And the real challenge, as I see it, would actually be to try and make a less-than-fitting creature that can survive against evolutionary odds and reach space.

If you think about it, that's what happened to us. The human being is far from being the perfect creature on Earth, yet we came to rule it. Compared to many of the creatures on this planet we are weak, slow, fragile, clumsy, cannot jump high nor swim properly, we don't possess any kind of effective natural weapon or mechanism of defense, but somehow we managed to make it through.

Wrap it up with the quest for creativity and there you have the kind of challenge I think would make the most of the SPORE engine and gameplay, had the game being designed and released as the 2005 demos suggested to us.

Maybe they should release all the ideas that got scrapped for Spore, along with some of the ideas they hadn't thought of yet, as Spore 2: Expert Edition, and just put a disclamer at the bottom that reads, "Purchase at your own risk. Game experiences may vary, or be exactly the same. Or appear horribly broken."

I'd buy it.

Falvrian wrote:But the most important thing is: playing with the "perfect" creature would get boring fast, specially when you consider multiple playthroughs. And the real challenge, as I see it, would actually be to try and make a less-than-fitting creature that can survive against evolutionary odds and reach space.

There is no "perfect" creature if the game responds to / incorporates optimal environments.

There's a reason deer live in the woods, beavers in the water, woolly mammoths in the snow, on mountains, in valleys, in rain forests, deserts, and other ecological niches/climates that get filled, .... Diversity exists in the real world because there are so many local optima. But the underlying game has to be complex enough to allow us to find and exploit the opportunities provided by a changing environment. Things like metabolism, optimal climates, predator/prey relationships, herd/solitary behavior, and other aspects need to come into play that allow more complexity to creep into the picture.

I don't think we really need an entire galaxy. I think a single planet could keep us occupied for a long time if done properly.

edit: for spelling and clarifying a point

If EA and Maxis are truley listen to us, and would like to make this game deep and full of awesome gameplay, they should read the forum on my signature, if you as spore fans would love to see this game become its potential, then you should as well click on the below forum and input your ideas.

smili wrote:I don't think we really need an entire galaxy. I think a single planet could keep us occupied for a long time if done properly.

Exactly! Why make 6 billion planets if you can make one incredibly complex planet? I can picture it now: your creature cautiously strolling through a lush tropical rainforest, densely thicketed with a multitude of trees and other plants, and populated by hundreds upon hundreds of the creatures made by others. In the background, you see a vast, rolling range of earthen hills and mountains, while, nearby, a river flows, the water turning white as it beats down upon the rocks lying at the bottom of a waterfall. But, in the distance, you hear the cry of what sounds like a medium-sized, porcine organism, as it is torn apart by an unknown threat. Suddenly, all of the wildlife become silent, and amongst the flora, you see a pair of eyes gazing upon you hungrily. As it leaps from the bushes, your creature knows to move to the side, and it narrowly avoids death. A fight ensues; the attacking organism appears feline in body structure; it moves quickly. However, your creature is faster; it has evolved a pair of sturdy, yet lengthy legs; your creature has also evolved somewhat large forelimbs, giving it incredible strength. With a few clumsy, yet powerful, swings, the felinoid is beaten into submission; you'd eat it, but you are herbivorous. You stride into a clearing, away from the would-be predator, which has already been picked up by yet another, larger predator. It doesn't seem to care about your existence; it already has dinner. Perhaps this has been a somewhat long visualization, but I just keep thinking about what the game could have been, yet perhaps still could be. Creature morphology would certainly keep me interested for months to come, as well as more complex development of your civilization, in aspects such as agriculture, philosophy, and its culture in general.

Well, I think everyone shares your personal dislikes of the game. I believe Maxis is actuallly about to release EPs to up the gameplay, but as usual, for more money...

Ah well, what else would I save up for...

WAIT! I have an idea! They should make planets larger and have different biomes that hold new creatures!

Eh, I think I just copied OmnimanticaRex... But they should instead of leaving me with my clay ball of a planet to work with.

what I don't get is why they don't make it so that you can chose the more shalow, easier version or the more complex, harder version. I'd play the shallow one to get the hang of game play, then try the indepth-one

He has a real point. And incase no one else noticed the game I saw on the video (poor graphics they were) was the one I wanted to buy. This one not so much. Hey, I think the game is great but if they made spore the way it was before it would be twenty times better. I mean sea creatures, cells with arms, tails that worked would make the best game ever. Patch it up!

joural wrote:what I don't get is why they don't make it so that you can chose the more shalow, easier version or the more complex, harder version. I'd play the shallow one to get the hang of game play, then try the indepth-one

Yes, it would be a good idea to have a more complex version separate, because one has to remember that the most important part of a game is being able to play it, and the game shouldn't be unplayable for the majority.

wow, I agree with everything you said.
Plus, I miss the creature stage part where each creature seemed to be on its own and had to scout for a mate. in the current creature phase... it's like mini tribal phase, and seeing all the creatures lumped together over a nest is very unrealistic. I want my creature to be able to wander far away from the nest (but still within range to find a mate) and bump into other creatures who aren't necessarily tied by a rope to thier nest. I miss where Will Wright made the creature drag its prey away from the beach, now how they eat is so unrealistic and awkward looking. I looked up spore about a year ago. Preordered it for February before it was moved to September. When I looked at it, my favorite video was the 35 minutes 05 demo. I expected to see that gameplay, or better. This is so limiting. I love it, but it's limiting.

Well mr chang, I hope the space expansion coming out fixes what you stated about the Space stage's "farming" and grinding attributes. I have personally modded the hell out of my space stage to remove those annoying things so I can explore freely. Thanks to the dev team for making Spore a VERY easily modded game. (there is no way they DIDN'T intend it to be modded with the way it was laid out. I have never seen a game so easy to alter that wasn't intended to be moddable, officially or not) Thanks for your work on the game, however short-lived. And the reason why Dev's can't post is because of flaming trolls, as you said, but it's also to prevent the devs from giving out any information about the dsesign process that could be considered either A) proprietary, or b) a slam that could hurt sales. Marketing and Legal tightly control the info to generate as much sales as possible. Hence why what's advertised NEVER is what you actually get. Ever get a Whopper that actually looked like the pictures and wasn't some greasy squished pile of soggy veggies and meat? Any ways... Thanks again and take care in whatever endeavors you pursue.

If many of these things stayed in the game, I probably would've never uninstalled it.

I doubt Spore will get more than one expansion and C&C Parts Pack will probably be the only Parts Pack, both of which was probably planned before Spore's launch. Partly because the general consensus is not very positive about the game. (It really is racking up the Disappointment of the Year awards.) But mostly because The Sims 3 comes out in about 2 months. Most, if not all, of Maxis's resources will be devoted to the Sims franchise.

I hope that someone from Maxis responds to this thread.

I'm sure that they still have the old prototype somewhere on a disk or something. Do you guys actually think that Maxis wouldn't have backups? They are probably forgotten somewhere because they finished the game. But still.

And remember. "OK, we start . . . Here."

agarrett wrote:I hope that someone from Maxis responds to this thread.

I'm sure that they still have the old prototype somewhere on a disk or something. Do you guys actually think that Maxis wouldn't have backups? They are probably forgotten somewhere because they finished the game. But still.

And remember. "OK, we start . . . Here."

I would not expect them to. A prototype from years ago is not something they would resurrect. All they would do is to take new ideas and add them to the current code baseline. They *might* use some of the code from the demo, but only if it was something that solved a particular problem and was easy to transfer to the new code base.