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Political Discourse™ Thread  XML
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Poll
Disclaimer: topic counts as political science, therefore valid.
Okay. 64% [ 63 ]
I'm a whiny baby. 36% [ 36 ]
Total Votes : 99
Author Message
Young420Kush

Microbe

Joined: 02/19/2018 16:55:12
Messages: 67
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Me sittin here waitin for Mavor like


eme12

Civilized Sporeon

Joined: 05/13/2009 20:39:42
Messages: 2013
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pee pee wee wees in my butt

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Donald Trump i hate u u suck u a big smellie meanie poopiebutthole and i just do not like u

;( maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaale lion.....you dreaming little giant feline......I WAS HOPING ONE DAY....TO SEE YOU IN THIS GAME. But Tell are sooooooo eviiiiiiiil. OH MALEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE LIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON I WOULD NEVER NOT USE AT THE SAME TIME ABUSE YOU OR COMBINE YOU WITH A TAPIR FROM TEEEEEEELLL..........OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH MALE LION. EVERYBODY THINKS YOU ARE NOT WORTH IT.....BUT I KNOW IT IS NOT TRUEEEEEEEEEE. CAUSE YOU HAVE A STRONG BITE BIG MANE AND LOVE TO ATTACK HENCHIES LEAP ON THEM AND TEAR THEIR HEALTH DOWN
Mavor

Civilized Sporeon

Joined: 11/29/2008 05:55:44
Messages: 1458
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Look down. You are flying over me right now.

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Fab_Hair wrote:I think there's a disconnect occurring here. It's not that some of the people here mind political discourse, hell, they even enjoy it. They just don't enjoy it with you.


Yes, I can see how a conservative view point would not be welcome by some of the people here. Personally I feel the same about their liberal posts.

As long as your aim is to convert or to "win" no matter the cost, you're never going to find any meaningful discussion with anyone - and as soon as you start ignoring facts (i.e. yelling "fake news"), you lose credibility. Who wants to listen to that?


Before this response, I took the time to re-read every post I have made in this thread. I found that "in general" my responses to new items were factual and to the point. That any new topic I added, was of a top political item of the day. And on a few occasions I even agreed at least in part with those who had other views and said so. I also found that I became more and more harsh with those that would reply not to me but "at me". Calling me names, attempting to take away my free speech, questioning my intelligence, or my morals, would be meet with progressively more aggressive responses as the attacks continued from an individual. Don't like it? I don't care. Don't want it to happen? Then stick to the topic and not how much you hate Trump and by extension me. I wear my MAGA hat proudly and not behind a bandanna to hid my face.

Normally the OP or a mod gets the final say on how the topics get to be discussed, but the forum's going down so I don't give a SPORE.

By all means, contact a MOD. But if you think I am just going to sit back and not respond to propaganda, fake news, lies, and personal attacks, you are mistaken.

@Young420Kush:

Nice . A young man secretly flipping the bird while playing the Yugio card game and with a sinister look on his face. (well as sinister as one can look while playing Yugio). Thank you for reinforcing my general characterizations of how the people on this thread behave and why I feel justified to respond the way I do.



Runilith

Multicellular

Joined: 04/11/2017 15:03:47
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Open the borders.


midnight1999

Civilized Sporeon

Joined: 02/09/2015 18:11:05
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Death X War OTP

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Mavor wrote:Calling me names, attempting to take away my free speech, questioning my intelligence, or my morals, would be meet with progressively more aggressive responses as the attacks continued from an individual.


Mavor wrote:I have posted 10 items in 4 days


I distinctly feel like you missed the point of “Stop it. Get some help.”

Young420Kush

Microbe

Joined: 02/19/2018 16:55:12
Messages: 67
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Mavor

Civilized Sporeon

Joined: 11/29/2008 05:55:44
Messages: 1458
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Runilith wrote:Open the borders.


Finally a topic rather than a personal attack.

I take the opposite position. Close the borders to all immigrants. And here are my reasons I think that the borders should be closed at this time.

1. The illegal immigrants that are crossing the border are generally an uneducated group seeking employment in menial jobs that are generally provided by unsavory businesses. They are not paid even close to minimum wage and are kept in a state of constant fear that they may be deported. In effect these people are being used as slaves. Their pay is so low that they are unable to purchase adequate housing and their educational level gives them little chance to move up in society. The jobs they hold usually have no benefits. They usually go unnoticed by safety officials and the fear of interacting with any government officials helps keeps them in those situations. They are the backs that evil individuals use to raise themselves up while creating a sub group to be preyed upon. It creates a closed society of despair and poverty. Which could in turn generate individuals like those of the middle east and former Soviet nations that turn to extreme violence because they have nothing else.

2. Legal immigrants to the United States have been flooding in since the 1960's at a rate that does not allow time for their assimilation into US society. Without this integration, they have formed enclaves of individuals that pose problems (both real and imagined) for the future. The Japanese were placed into camps by Roosevelt mostly because of fear of a similar situation. Small communities of individuals not willing to (or banned from) interacting with society as a whole. This could well happen again with Arab, Chinese, or a dozen other nationalities, should we go to war with their nation of origin. And can easily be avoided by giving them time to become Americans rather than Canadian-Americans for example.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 08/06/2018 17:47:10


sapient2

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Include me in the screencap!
Mike_Pence

Multicellular

Joined: 01/08/2017 00:42:56
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dame tu cosita *goose honking noise* dame tu cosita *goose honking noise* dame tu cosita unh unh

Runilith

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Mavor wrote:
Runilith wrote:Open the borders.


Finally a topic rather than a personal attack.

I take the opposite position. Close the borders to all immigrants. And here are my reasons I think that the borders should be closed at this time.

1. The illegal immigrants that are crossing the border are generally an uneducated group seeking employment in menial jobs that are generally provided by unsavory businesses. They are not paid even close to minimum wage and are kept in a state of constant fear that they may be deported. In effect these people are being used as slaves. Their pay is so low that they are unable to purchase adequate housing and their educational level gives them little chance to move up in society. The jobs they hold usually have no benefits. They usually go unnoticed by safety officials and the fear of interacting with any government officials helps keeps them in those situations. They are the backs that evil individuals use to raise themselves up while creating a sub group to be preyed upon. It creates a closed society of despair and poverty. Which could in turn generate individuals like those of the middle east and former Soviet nations that turn to extreme violence because they have nothing else.

2. Legal immigrants to the United States have been flooding in since the 1960's at a rate that does not allow time for their assimilation into US society. Without this integration, they have formed enclaves of individuals that pose problems (both real and imagined) for the future. The Japanese were placed into camps by Roosevelt mostly because of fear of a similar situation. Small communities of individuals not willing to (or banned from) interacting with society as a whole. This could well happen again with Arab, Chinese, or a dozen other nationalities, should we go to war with their nation of origin. And can easily be avoided by giving them time to become Americans rather than Canadian-Americans for example.





this but unironically


Mavor

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Runilith wrote:
Mavor wrote:
Runilith wrote:Open the borders.


Finally a topic rather than a personal attack.

I take the opposite position. Close the borders to all immigrants. And here are my reasons I think that the borders should be closed at this time.

*snip





this but unironically


Ok, but exactly how do you plan to pay and administer this. Do you plan to screen out criminals and the like. Or is everyone welcome. What do you do about employment. 2.1 million jobs were added to the to the US economy in 2017 (which was a record year). Open borders could bring in an estimated 4 to 8 million people a year*. Do these new people automatically get social security, medicare, unemployment and food stamps. And how do you plan to provide the housing for these masses? At it's highest, new housing sales only numbered 1.3 million units a month. That would just barely cover immigrants let alone US citizens. And of course, do the immigrants have the money to buy new homes should one be available. Or are immigrants going to be allowed to bypass construction laws to set up shanty towns out of shipping containers and cardboard.. Or will the government build them housing at taxpayer expense. And how do you prevent inflation in food, housing, and fuel costs as the numbers increase each year. Are environmental regulations going to be removed so that the electric, gas, water, and waste disposal facilities can be built to service a city the size of Los Angles each year. And roads will need to be built. Where does this money come from? Not to mention that coal mines and refineries will be need to be built and expanded to fuel all the new electric plants and cars. And what about disease control. The US has not had a major epidemic because of preventative herd immunizations programs. Most third world countries can't even dream of these programs. How do you safeguard US citizens from this threat. I'm just asking for how these problems would realistically be addressed and paid for if the US went to an open borders policy.


*The US currently accepts 1.2 million legal immigrants a year and returns an yearly average of 800,000 individuals who are arrested trying to cross the border (20 year average). illegal immigrants reaching the US per year is unknown and estimate vary wildly. There are 6 million immigration applications received by the US on average each year.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 08/08/2018 00:43:10


Runilith

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i want to abolish borders period so that the russians can openly meddle in our elections instead of having to do it in secret.


Creeper1212

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Joined: 01/26/2015 00:26:16
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I take the opposite position. Close the borders to all immigrants. And here are my reasons I think that the borders should be closed at this time.


I'm not sure if you just skipped the nuance of this issue in order to keep this post concise, or if you really suggest such a total solution, or if I am totally misinterpreting this, but it seems that you are implying that there is not a good reason why we should let anyone into the country, which seems really extreme. There are plenty of reasons to let someone in, but I could see very tight controls on who gets in being pretty reasonable, if not really ideal.

I mostly agree with your second point, and appreciate seeing common ground on something, but I'll just use this space to debunk the "illegal immigrants are taking our jobs" thing, since that is closely related. Illegal migrants are taking the jobs that no one wants, with horrible compensation for difficult work. (This part isn't supposed to be arguing against what you said, I'm just agreeing with you and debunking a stupid argument I see a lot)

2. Legal immigrants to the United States have been flooding in since the 1960's at a rate that does not allow time for their assimilation into US society. Without this integration, they have formed enclaves of individuals that pose problems (both real and imagined) for the future. The Japanese were placed into camps by Roosevelt mostly because of fear of a similar situation. Small communities of individuals not willing to (or banned from) interacting with society as a whole. This could well happen again with Arab, Chinese, or a dozen other nationalities, should we go to war with their nation of origin. And can easily be avoided by giving them time to become Americans rather than Canadian-Americans for example.


It is pretty much human nature to associate with people similar to you. If you are in a new place, would you rather live and interact with people who look and act like you, or people that are totally different and don't understand what you are going through? People integrating takes a lot of time, and distinct cultural groups could take generations to totally integrate. Don't expect people to integrate in a timely manner, and don't expect people to willingly put themselves through the trauma of being isolated in a foreign culture. Modern American culture is the by-product of centuries of elements of various cultures being americanized and integrated into the greater culture over many decades.

Being concerned about people with other loyalties undermining society from within is just outright paranoia. There are a whole lot more more people who are loyal to the country they are living in than there are people with other loyalties. Ideally, there should not be people immigrating in large numbers from countries that pose a credible threat to the US, and have motivations to oppose the US, and these days there are very few countries which meet that criteria, and few reasons why someone from one these countries would prefer to be ostracized for supporting an enemy rather than just shut up and appreciate that they were allowed to live in this country.

Also the example of Canadian-Americans is pretty terrible. If you saw a Canadian-American on the street, you probably wouldn't even notice that they aren't just another American, because Canadians and Americans are similar enough that a Canadian-American is probably about as different from you as someone who used to live on the opposite side of the country (slightly different, but also pretty similar in general). And why would Canadians want to cause trouble in the US?
(I suddenly feel really petty for typing an entire paragraph about what was probably just the first country that came into your head when you were typing this. OOF)
Runilith

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For future reference Mav, a better example than Canadian-Americans would have been the Sharia courts that are forming in Britain as a result of mass Islamic immigration to the region. These Sharia courts are taking precedence over British common law for fear of the law enforcement appearing racist. Look into this and make the argument for me, it's pretty fascinating stuff.


Mavor

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Creeper1212 wrote:

*Snip

It is pretty much human nature to associate with people similar to you. If you are in a new place, would you rather live and interact with people who look and act like you, or people that are totally different and don't understand what you are going through? People integrating takes a lot of time, and distinct cultural groups could take generations to totally integrate.

You are correct about human nature. It generally takes about 3 generations ( 60 years ) to mostly integrate into a new culture. About the same length as between the Immigration Act of 1917 and the Immigration and Nationality Act Amendments of 1965. During which time immigration was highly restricted but not totally banned.

Being concerned about people with other loyalties undermining society from within is just outright paranoia.

I totally agree. It is completel paranoia. But still it happens. Placing Japanese immigrants into internment camps on the West coast and a few Germans and Italians from the East coast into camps in Canada was done out of complete paranoia. But it did happen. And in the days after 9/11 the call for all people of Arab decent to be rounded up were fortunately quelled by efforts of both Republican and Democrat leadership. But it was called for and for a few days heavily discussed. It wasn't fair. It had no merit. And it was ill-conceived to begin with. But still it happened. Because that is what fear does to people. They become irrational and want simple answers that make their fear go away.


There are a whole lot more more people who are loyal to the country they are living in than there are people with other loyalties.

Again I agree. The 442nd Infantry Regiment was composed entirely of soldiers of japenese dissent and fought with distinguished honors in Europe during WWII. But some members still had relatives in camps on the West coast.

*snip

Also the example of Canadian-Americans is pretty terrible.

Agreed, but I thought it was the most likely not to generate rants of racism should I have picked from the other choices.

Runilith wrote:For future reference Mav, a better example than Canadian-Americans would have been the Sharia courts that are forming in Britain as a result of mass Islamic immigration to the region. These Sharia courts are taking precedence over British common law for fear of the law enforcement appearing racist. Look into this and make the argument for me, it's pretty fascinating stuff.


Jeez, and would you like me to walk on water while doing that? At least illegal immigrants to the US generally have laws based on the same religious concepts and teachings like the ten commandments. And even though a lot of their governments are dysfunctional, they where set up on a democratic republic model at some point. But with the British problem, you have a complete disconnect between cultures. I'm not sure that any kind of solution can be found without a massive upheaval. Either the British government will have to forcibly exert it's sovereignty leading to bloodshed or British culture will be fundamentally changed to a more Islamic model also leading to bloodshed. Because of government choices, they are looking at a very troubled future. Or of course they could always do what they have done in the past. SARCASM Alert!! Sarcasm begins now: Have country wide riots where they kill a lot of them like they did with Jews and Flemish people in the middle ages. And then ship the rest of the undesirables off to some penal colony like the Falkland Islands.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 08/08/2018 02:42:44

 
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