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Spore Creepy and Cute Pack:Spore Evolves with New Content,Gameplay and Tools (official announcement)  XML
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ThrowerOfStones


Multicellular

Joined: 09/12/2008 17:08:24
Messages: 244
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RocketGirl wrote:
ThrowerOfStones wrote:
As far as emergent gameplay - you own the game. Go play it. I could recount for awhile examples of the game behavior showing more complexity than you see at surface value, because as someone who has played the crap out of it and still is, I've seen a lot, but honestly, just play the SPORE game, and see for yourself.


You've just taken the cheap way out. Hell, this is a response worthy of Sarah Mooseburger: lots of rah-rah noise with absolutely no content.

I PLAYED the game; the emergent gameplay wasn't evident. I asked for examples; provide them or concede the argument.


Honestly, I'm getting distracted enough by this, I'm trying to do my Akkadian homework. But they really aren't that hard to find, particularly in the Space and creature stages. Civ and tribal are a bit more locked in, although there some there, too. I've had neutral foreign tribal members pick on a baby of my tribe and cause a war. That really pissed me off...

Anyway, back to Akkadian. I recomend you either get over Spore or go back to playing it, you'll probably be much happier either way.

Parvati


Civilized Sporeon

Joined: 09/12/2008 18:03:08
Messages: 1408
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RocketGirl wrote:
No, I feel taken in because they're trying to sell what we were told would be in the game all along. There's even video out there--I'll try to dig it up if you REALLY want, but it's hard to find--of Will Wright getting out of his ship and walking around an alien planet...long after 2005. The video is much closer to what Spore is now, post Cute-Spore Coup.


TED 2007.

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=F0_U9Tx17RA

at 13:43 if I remember correctly.
RocketGirl


MouthBreather

Joined: 09/12/2008 17:48:52
Messages: 851
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ausdreamer wrote:
If you are not going to accept expansions - can you say in words that "idiots" like myself can understand where you are coming from because quite frankly I am getting the impression that only a whole new totally different game will make you happy.


That WOULD make me happy...but you're harping on about an offhand comment I made about no longer having the auth-code for the first Sims game. What the hell do you expect as a response? "Oh, yes, let's discuss the copy protection on a game that's more than 8 years old! Whoopee!"???

The problem is that Spore has become a coloring book instead of a chemistry set

"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -Douglas Adams
ThrowerOfStones


Multicellular

Joined: 09/12/2008 17:08:24
Messages: 244
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MinionJoe wrote:
ThrowerOfStones wrote:There's nothing wrong with a game without replayability - the vast majority of story-driven games fall under this umbrella.


Ah! Here I will disagree. There are lots of games out there that are story-driven AND have great replayability. Fable and Knights of the Old Republic come to mind. Granted, they are RP games and give enough character variety to make replayability interesting. But they are story-driven.

In another thread, someone called Spore an RPG. To an extent, it is. To fully enjoy Spore, you really have to get into the head of your creatures. But I do not consider Spore to be designed as an RPG. There is no real story, creatures have no real variance in stats, and you can't stab your own party members in the back.

The last being an important requirement for an RPG in my book.


The story-driven aspects of those games hurt their replayability. It is indeed the more emergent aspects of them that enhance it - the fact that you can make a new character with new capabilities.

Although whiel I have replayed Fable several times, it's replayability is fairly limited - specifically, no more to 2-3 times. It's basically "Be evil once, be good once, be magic user once, be fighter once, be archer once (if you can stand it). Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 - now THOSE are story driven games with replayability!

RocketGirl


MouthBreather

Joined: 09/12/2008 17:48:52
Messages: 851
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ThrowerOfStones wrote:
RocketGirl wrote:
You've just taken the cheap way out. Hell, this is a response worthy of Sarah Mooseburger: lots of rah-rah noise with absolutely no content.

I PLAYED the game; the emergent gameplay wasn't evident. I asked for examples; provide them or concede the argument.


Honestly, I'm getting distracted enough by this, I'm trying to do my Akkadian homework. But they really aren't that hard to find, particularly in the Space and creature stages. Civ and tribal are a bit more locked in, although there some there, too. I've had neutral foreign tribal members pick on a baby of my tribe and cause a war. That really pissed me off...


THIS is what you call "emergent gameplay"? Seriously? The way Sims form relationships and interact with each other is emergent gameplay; this baby-killer example of yours sounds to me like just gameplay. And you haven't provided a specific example from the stages you mentioned as having the most emergent gameplay.

So I hereby accept your concession of the argument.


The problem is that Spore has become a coloring book instead of a chemistry set

"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -Douglas Adams
ThrowerOfStones


Multicellular

Joined: 09/12/2008 17:08:24
Messages: 244
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RocketGirl wrote:
ThrowerOfStones wrote:
RocketGirl wrote:
You've just taken the cheap way out. Hell, this is a response worthy of Sarah Mooseburger: lots of rah-rah noise with absolutely no content.

I PLAYED the game; the emergent gameplay wasn't evident. I asked for examples; provide them or concede the argument.


Honestly, I'm getting distracted enough by this, I'm trying to do my Akkadian homework. But they really aren't that hard to find, particularly in the Space and creature stages. Civ and tribal are a bit more locked in, although there some there, too. I've had neutral foreign tribal members pick on a baby of my tribe and cause a war. That really pissed me off...


THIS is what you call "emergent gameplay"? Seriously? The way Sims form relationships and interact with each other is emergent gameplay; this baby-killer example of yours sounds to me like just gameplay. And you haven't provided a specific example from the stages you mentioned as having the most emergent gameplay.

So I hereby accept your concession of the argument.



If you really need the cookie, take it. I honestly thought you'd get more enjoyment from experiencing the gameplay yourself, but hey, if you'd rather just convince yourself it isn't there...

PrinceofIce


Civilized Sporeon

Joined: 09/12/2008 01:03:32
Messages: 1671
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Behind You.

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Did you noticed they said "After the release of spore players have been begging for more tools."

We have? I thought we were begging for bug fixes. Hmm I must read really badly then.

Call me Prince. Or Ice. Or Poi. Or whatever.

Play Heroes of Newerth? Tell me.
[WWW]
MinionJoe


Spacefaring Sporeling

Joined: 09/19/2008 22:59:19
Messages: 5991
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ThrowerOfStones wrote:The story-driven aspects of those games hurt their replayability. It is indeed the more emergent aspects of them that enhance it - the fact that you can make a new character with new capabilities.


Yes, I can agree that story-driven aspects can hurt replayability...

And a lack of "new characters with new capabilities" would also explain why Spore has little replayability. Honestly, there are only 8 skills, ranked 1 to 5. And a creature can be maxxed out on most of these at one time. And while Fable allowed playing as good/evil/fighter/magic-user, Spore only really allows playing as aggressive, social, or a balance of the two.

So doesn't Spore actually have less replayability based upon those criteria?


Times MinionJoe Has Been Banned: 5 Times MinionJoe's Opinion Has Changed: 0
ThrowerOfStones


Multicellular

Joined: 09/12/2008 17:08:24
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PrinceofIce wrote:Did you noticed they said "After the release of spore players have been begging for more tools."

We have? I thought we were begging for bug fixes. Hmm I must read really badly then.


Read the feedback boards. It's half bugs, half suggestions for new options.

Eekwotsthat


MouthBreather

Joined: 09/14/2008 08:47:42
Messages: 677
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At the end of the day anyone who was expecting 2005 Spore (which was what they wanted to make before the design was finalised and the reality of what was achievable set in) has been dissapointed. Some people did and still expect games as complex as Civ X, Total War, Settlers, Masters of Orion for each phase. Others want blood and gore as they don't like the "cute" factor. These people are the most vocal on these and other boards.

Looking at it I'm impressed with the overall product. It is not just a game. I do have problems with the sharing/sporepedia portion but simply looking at the editors and knowing some coding I can appreciate just thie complexity and achievement of the editors and animation. Producing several phases with evolving phases is a feat in itself. Sure they could add more to each stage but could they do it and maintain look and feel ? The expansion is for the space stage which is the easiest to actually enhance as it has no effect on subsequent stages. Saying that I do have gripes...

1) the fact that methods of sharing and feedback of content you create is sadly lacking.
2) The statistic methodology for creatures was far better, in my opinion, in the creature creator to that in the released game (stackable parts adjusting statistics cumalatively). When creating stuff in game I tend to make sure I use the max stat parts which restricts creativity. I can understand the reasoning.. It forces people to look for parts around the world.
3) Space... Managing your empire is a major pain, especially when it gets larger. Having the ability to automatically sell spice (even at base rate) would encourage you to explore more. This and other enhancements have been covered in suggestions elsewhere.

Despite these gripes I appreciate spore as is. Expansions can only make it better but I'll only buy those I think provide something worthwhile. It is in Maxis/EA's best interest therefore to enhance the game over time. It has already soaked up a lot of my time and will continue to do so even without any enhancements.



RocketGirl


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Joined: 09/12/2008 17:48:52
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ThrowerOfStones wrote:
If you really need the cookie, take it. I honestly thought you'd get more enjoyment from experiencing the gameplay yourself, but hey, if you'd rather just convince yourself it isn't there...


No, dummkopf, I'd rather you try to convince me it's there. That's what I asked for.

I told you, I've played the game, I didn't see it. And if it was there, it was so shallow as to be nothing to write home about. You claim otherwise; I asked you to back your position up. You didn't, therefore I conclude that you couldn't; ergo, I win.

The problem is that Spore has become a coloring book instead of a chemistry set

"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -Douglas Adams
ThrowerOfStones


Multicellular

Joined: 09/12/2008 17:08:24
Messages: 244
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MinionJoe wrote:
ThrowerOfStones wrote:The story-driven aspects of those games hurt their replayability. It is indeed the more emergent aspects of them that enhance it - the fact that you can make a new character with new capabilities.


Yes, I can agree that story-driven aspects can hurt replayability...

And a lack of "new characters with new capabilities" would also explain why Spore has little replayability. Honestly, there are only 8 skills, ranked 1 to 5. And a creature can be maxxed out on most of these at one time. And while Fable allowed playing as good/evil/fighter/magic-user, Spore only really allows playing as aggressive, social, or a balance of the two.

So doesn't Spore actually have less replayability based upon those criteria?


Except the main appeal of Spore is the creators - those add built in replayability. Once your down with your civilization of bat-men, you embark on the mighty civilization of pigmonkeys, and then later the civilization of pant-shaped plants, and so on and so forth. For those of us who enjoy creation and storytelling, this is just as rich a source of replayability as variable statistics. I'd even argue moreso, because while replaying Fable as a fighter and a wizard was fun, fundamentally both times I was just killing stuff. In many ways I got more fun from the fact that my good wizard had a huge scar on his face than repeatedly spamming the explosion power instead of hacking things to pieces.

The gameplay of spore certainly could benefit from more differentiation, but saying that each game is the same is basically missing the whole point, the whole attraction of Spore - the creators.

TDOONAN


Multicellular

Joined: 09/09/2008 20:15:11
Messages: 197
Location:
Los Angeles, California, USA

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OK I read all 11 pages and only found one question about what happens to the creatures created using the new parts.

I assume they will be shared which is fine since this is one of the major aspects of the game. And since they are uploaded as PNG files we will be able to see them in the Sporepedia. But if we choose to not purchase the parts pack (At least until we find it in the bargain bin for $10) will we be able to actually see the creatures on our planets? And will they animate properly since we won't have the new animations either.

I don't filter anything out of my game and so far have been really happy with what I have seen walking around. So far I have not been attacked by giant furniture or Mario's. So it will be interesting to see what happens when these new creatures are added to the Sporepedia if you don't have the parts pack installed.

I am looking forward to the Space expac and will probably buy it when it comes out next year. The ability to beam down to the planet will make the game at least a little bit like what I was expecting.

Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
ThrowerOfStones


Multicellular

Joined: 09/12/2008 17:08:24
Messages: 244
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RocketGirl wrote:
ThrowerOfStones wrote:
If you really need the cookie, take it. I honestly thought you'd get more enjoyment from experiencing the gameplay yourself, but hey, if you'd rather just convince yourself it isn't there...


No, dummkopf, I'd rather you try to convince me it's there. That's what I asked for.

I told you, I've played the game, I didn't see it. And if it was there, it was so shallow as to be nothing to write home about. You claim otherwise; I asked you to back your position up. You didn't, therefore I conclude that you couldn't; ergo, I win.


Now you're resorting to german insults? Do you think that's clever?

And why would you want me to convince you of anything? You quite obviously value your own opinion far higher than that of any others.

If I have more time later I might post some examples, right now I honestly don't have the time or inclination, especially with your attitude. I urge you again to either give the game a second chance or stop harping over it - it can't be good for your blood pressure.

MinionJoe


Spacefaring Sporeling

Joined: 09/19/2008 22:59:19
Messages: 5991
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Eekwotsthat wrote:Some people did and still expect games as complex as Civ X, Total War, Settlers, Masters of Orion for each phase.


I knew each of Spore's phases would be not be on the same level as a game dedicated to one aspect. But I did expect my decisions on a previous phase to carry over into the next and for my creature's design to actually matter.

Before I quit playing, I was running a creature with no arms, no legs, and no eyes just to make it interesting. But even then, cell and creature were still a cake-walk. I quit before going to tribal because the concept of crippled, blind slugs becoming civilized was laughable.


Times MinionJoe Has Been Banned: 5 Times MinionJoe's Opinion Has Changed: 0
 
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