Ah, this is interesting.

It's just a bit odd that it happened now of all times, but it's a bit of a recurring pattern. Information & science, our observations, are core.
This is why many a political figure is found lieing through their teeth sometime or another. Because certain information gets certian results. Some of it gets glory, reward, satisfying events, you name it.

Whether you're christian or atheist, it seems strange to just remove the theory from the books like that. But both of you will get to gawk at something even madder. But a madness I'm compelled to propose.
This, SOPA, lobbies, censorship, various dictator regimes, liar politicians, severing educations, political ties to media, it follows a common pattern, acccording to my hypothesis.

Information is power. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I'm just saying that people like to tweak around with that & distort facts, in politics & more. Some would say one central power pulls the thickest strings, but those men are in tin foil hats, or in padded cells.

I am here, because I'm playing it safe & declaring that everyone does this sometime. It's immature, & it amounts to a swarm, but there you go. As individuals we're smart, but collectively we're like kids in a sandbox. In a sense.
Tie up all previous theories. It's greed, fear, whyever the movement sought this change. Which roots from hunger, & will to survive. Or I'm just going a bit mad. You decide.

"People! This game of 'avoid hunger' is getting nuts. Just share, will you? Alright, fine, you can trade, but don't forget to lend some to the starving. That's an important resource there, now! I think we should share it! Now then. Let's go see this world, shall we?"

The fact that S. Korea enacted this decision is perplexing, but it carries a few core elements of a kind.
Asking to tweak informational flow for competitive benefit, or satisfaction? Familiar, in a sense.

wut

Hey, just to throw in my two cents, I think this is retarded. And it's already been covered by ash and Vampiress, but I'm a Christian and I believe in evolution. Science and the Bible fit together pretty well as far as I've seen.

But, I'm also astonishingly stupid, so take that with a grain of salt (or a pillar. Too soon?)

The funny thing is that this seems more like something you'd see from North Korea than South Korea.

The whole "power corrupts" thing is a whole lot facile for my taste. I've had the joy of spending time with some very powerful people, and while their decisions affect more people (giving the fringes more likelihood of being displeased) I've not found powerful people to be intrinsically more corrupt than otherwise. Probably rather less because they are not open to bribery and are well aware of the dangers inherent in sycophants, laziness and cowardice.

I've found powerful people to be more aware of how what they do affects others, and to be less interested in hurting other people than the sort of people who have very little power in their lives and so are given to over-exercising what little they have.

Can't believe that Republicans are taking office again... :/

Because I was really hoping for the effects of the Cold War to start to wear off by now. I wouldn't have to swear on Bibles or pledge to God and my country or be blinded to knowledge which I'm pretty sure Jesus would have approved of.

This is why I will one day move to Canada.

Now, this business about evolution being banned from South Korea's textbooks shouldn't be that big a surprise. In fact, it almost happened here in the United States. Remember Rick Santorum, anyone? Yeah, he dropped out of the presidential race and everyone forgot about him and his idiocy. But during the campaign, he said that if he became president, he would ban the teaching of evolution in America's schools and make all the teachers teach creationism instead. Fortunately, he dropped out of the race, so the next generation's knowledge of the way the world works won't be jeopardized. But this should serve as a warning—we are slowly returning to the way things were before. I am very biased on the subject, and say what you like, I tend to blame it all on conservative Christians. I'm always saying that at this rate, in another fifty years we'll have taken away women's suffrage, and in another hundred we'll have slavery again. This is an exaggeration of course, but banning the teaching of evolution is only the first step. The first rolling pebble that triggers the landslide, shall we say.

Beware everyone. It may be too slow to notice, but we may be slowly reversing the progress we've made in the past 236 years.

Meh, I've seen progress on some topics here in America and well the opposite in others. I don't think we're running backwards, just moving forward way too slow because of close-mindedness.

Honestly I don't see banning evolution here in America being any more effective than banning alcohol was. We have too many atheist or those of other religions that would exercise their right for their children not to learn creationism. I'm sure they would be louder that those who don't want their children to learn evolution since many accept both to an extent anymore. It's just sad and frustrating seeing this happen in other countries.

I agree wholly with what you say about there being enough atheists exercising their right to a proper education. In fact, if in science class we did have to learn about creationism, I would walk out of the classroom without so much as a word.

Now I think it's too early to determine whether or not we're going backwards. If we are going backwards, we're right at the peak right now and are just turning around. Several states have recently banned gay marriage—states that previously allowed it. North Carolina, for instance. These advances in rights were very recent, and therefore are the first to go if we are in fact reversing all our progress.

Of course, they could just be the conservatives standing in the way of progress instead of them completely reversing it. Too early to tell at this point.

Has anyone noticed how some people have been talking about how we should return to the glorious ways of the Founding Fathers? Well, their way was giving only white men the right to vote and enslaving all the Africans. Yes, people do want to go back, and I think they're all crazy.

Sorry if I'm sounding like some kind of fanatic here. I really don't mean to.

I believe they should teach both sides of the story so the kid can choose between the two, not whoever is in charge. THAT would be making true progress.

God-mod wrote:I believe they should teach both sides of the story so the kid can choose between the two, not whoever is in charge. THAT would be making true progress.

"True progress?" You must be joking.

God-mod wrote:I believe they should teach both sides of the story so the kid can choose between the two, not whoever is in charge. THAT would be making true progress.

That's what they were doing back in the 70's when I was in JH/HS. Taught both and let you stay for one both or neither as you beliefs suited.

Mendelian genetics was taught entirely separately, since most of us could see the truth in that, even the Mennonites who left class on evolution days.

I always went to both sessions, since I have and interest in science and theology.

One other thing. The Episcopalian bishop and the dean of the cathedral are very good friends. I've played pokemon with their kids and theology, history and ethics with them. And irish dance set, and a good bit of whiskey drinking. They know I'm pagan, and I'm more than welcome to their houses, churches and tables.

I don't equate atheist with intelligent, nor christian with stupidity. It's short sighted to stereotype either.

Teaching both isn't really progress. That's what we did in the 1970s, as ashkelon pointed out, and this is 2012. There's a difference of 4 decades there.

And I don't necessarily equate any religion or lack thereof with any particular intelligence level. On both sides it is, to be blunt, the stupid ones who make the news all the time. The atheist who burned down a church, or the clergyman who did you know what. Those are the people we hear about, and thus both sides stereotype the other based on the reported actions of a few.

But I must admit I am very biased against most right-wingers, especially conservative Christians. There's no denying that.

But we digress. The topic at hand was banning the teaching of evolution in schools. Have any other countries done that besides South Korea?

Slyth33 wrote:If you thought only Americans and the third world hated science, our friends across the (bigger) pond have decided to remove most references to evolution from their high school curriculum.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=south-korea-surrenders-creationist-demands

The campaign was led by the Society for Textbook Revise (STR), which aims to delete the “error” of evolution from textbooks to “correct” students’ views of the world, according to the society’s website. The society says that its members include professors of biology and high-school science teachers.

The STR is also campaigning to remove content about “the evolution of humans” and “the adaptation of finch beaks based on habitat and mode of sustenance”, a reference to one of the most famous observations in Charles Darwin’s On the Origin of Species.

Sets a bad precedent for similar movements in some of the states, some of whom are not on good terms with the scientific community already.

Most of the Koreans I've met are devout Christians and are highly conservative. The fact that a movement like this is occurring is not surprising. However, Korea is extremely invested in science and technology, so I think it would be unlikely for this movement to succeed. Apparently, this isn't the case. It baffles my mind.

I am going to be controversial here, and say I agree with God-mod (i think thats the right person/spelling, I'm on my phone i can't check) and that teaching both sides of the argument is the only true progression. While I staunchly subscribe to evolution, I also feel that we should teach it alongside other opinions. We shouldn't enforce a person to believe whichever of the theories the government want them to believe. Let them decide for themselves, only then can they understand the full picture, and decide which view point is more plausible. Nowadays I think most People could be intelligent enough to realise Evolution is much more plausible. If given the choice that is, and not forced to believe something without considerring the alternatives.

Unfortunately i do agree there is a problem with this, and that is in the home life. Many parents will tell their child "Oh no ignore what you hear in school, creationsim is the only correct viewpoint" or vice versa. The blame therefore isn't with the school in most cases it's society, and parenting.

As such, in places plagued with religious fundamentalism, even teaching solely evolution in schools wouldn't help. Unfortunately the christian church was incredibly effective in it's propaganda and indoctrination in It's hayday, so effective it has become ingrained into some cultures, and become tradition to indoctrinate infants, a tradition which the Church told people, at it's beginning, that they were never to end, or even question. Impressive feat of Cultural "programming" if you ask me.

G1s26 wrote:I am going to be controversial here, and say I agree with God-mod (i think thats the right person/spelling, I'm on my phone i can't check) and that teaching both sides of the argument is the only true progression.

How is teaching something inherently unscientific and untestable a sign of progress? If anything, that's a sign of regression. Creationism should never be taught in science class.

and While I staunchly subscribe to evolution, I also feel that we should teach it alongside other opinions.

Evolution is not an opinion; it is practically scientific fact at this point. It's the only theory that accurately explains the diversity of life, among many other things. Nothing else comes close, so it should not be taught. Besides which, there are thousands of beliefs about how the world works...are you seriously suggesting we should teach all of those too?

In a religion class? Sure, why not? For the history of religious beliefs? History class. But not science.

We shouldn't enforce a person to believe whichever of the theories the government want them to believe. Let them decide for themselves, only then can they understand the full picture, and decide which view point is more plausible.

There's a major difference between teaching someone a belief, and teaching someone a scientific theory (one that is probably the most well-substantiated theory ever created).

Nowadays I think most People could be intelligent enough to realise Evolution is much more plausible. If given the choice that is, and not forced to believe something without considerring the alternatives.

Clearly not, since more than half of Americans doesn't accept evolution at all. I'm sure in other places it's even worse.

As such, in places plagued with religious fundamentalism, even teaching solely evolution in schools wouldn't help. Unfortunately the christian church was incredibly effective in it's propaganda and indoctrination in It's hayday, so effective it has become ingrained into some cultures, and become tradition to indoctrinate infants, a tradition which the Church told people, at it's beginning, that they were never to end, or even question. Impressive feat of Cultural "programming" if you ask me.

Well, that's why it's imperative that we break the church's stranglehold on scientific progress. We need to end the tradition, not give in to it.