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Spore Creepy and Cute Pack:Spore Evolves with New Content,Gameplay and Tools (official announcement)  XML
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ThrowerOfStones


Multicellular

Joined: 09/12/2008 17:08:24
Messages: 244
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Whole posts in quotes really bother me.

Ascus


MouthBreather

Joined: 09/13/2008 00:23:48
Messages: 613
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ThrowerOfStones wrote:Whole posts in quotes really bother me.
Its helpful for identifying what the response is addressing. Sometimes the subject can radically change while typing a thoughtful response.


Check out my Sporecast viewer at http://ciper.com/spore/spore.php
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Sethan777


Multicellular

Joined: 09/12/2008 07:11:21
Messages: 168
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Well, I am happy to buy both expansions and I still love the game. The option to walk on planets you explore is very nice (also to create your own missions). But what really makes me nervous is, they didnt talk about the *Plant editor*. Will we get it for free in a patch? PLEASE Maxis let the Fans know when the plant editor will come out. I really think we NEED it

RocketGirl


MouthBreather

Joined: 09/12/2008 17:48:52
Messages: 851
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ThrowerOfStones wrote:
But Spore isn't dull, isn't shallow, and has emergent gameplay.


Yes, it is, and no, it doesn't.

Show me an example of how a creature will behave differently from another creature based on how it was built, based on a variable seed which determines its larger design, like a fractal. Show me that.
Show me the part where how a creature is built determines its fitness in the world; I've watched creatures on other planets...they don't DO anything. And they can be placed on the world at ANY stage during terraforming, the fitness in the world doesn't MATTER. At the very MOST, a creatures stats determine how hard it is to kill, period; its behavior doesn't appear to be emergent at all, except in the most rudimentary form.

Show me Spore's depth. Show me how interactions between creatures goes AT ALL beyond the superficial. Show me how a planet's ecology is anything other than a mere checklist. Show me how a cosmology affects a solar system, how planets have different gravity or atmospheres, how a sun's color, size, and temperature affects much of anything.

Where'z this alleged depth you're finding in Spore? Because all I see is a bunch of one-note symphonies, terraforming checklists, and two-to-three option conversation possibilities.


The fact that you don't enjoy it doesn't mean that other people don't too.


The fact that other people are enjoying it doesn't mean that it has DEPTH. People enjoyed games like Donkey Kong, Pac-Man, and Space Invaders for ages when video games were new, but that doesn't mean they had depth.


Sure it is also the case that many people have left - that just means Spore isn't for them. Doesn't mean that Spore doesn't have infinite replayablility for the subset of gamers that Spore appeals to.


Doesn't mean Spore is a monkey-maker for Maxis, either; appealing to the minority base seems, to me, to be the rather chowderheaded business plan. And it IS a minority; the extreme drop-off in players and the polls and articles I've read definitely indicate that Spore's core remaining audience is much smaller than those anticipating its release...

The problem is that Spore has become a coloring book instead of a chemistry set

"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -Douglas Adams
ThrowerOfStones


Multicellular

Joined: 09/12/2008 17:08:24
Messages: 244
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MinionJoe wrote:
ThrowerOfStones wrote:Then a company who releases an expansion for it will probably be in for an unpleasant surprise as nobody is playing their game anymore and thus nobody buys the expansion.


I agree.

We'll just have to see how well the parts pack and expansion sell.


This is definitely true.

There's nothing wrong with a game without replayability - the vast majority of story-driven games fall under this umbrella. MMOs and Sim games and party games are games where replayability is important. Spore is fundamentally a Sim game with a storyline a bit forced on to it in the Space stage. Thus, it - should - be a good candidate for expansions, as long as 1) The storyline isn't the main attraction (I think we can safely say it isn't) and 2) The game itself has enough of an inherent value to maintain an audience without the expansion. I believe 2 is the case, but if it isn't... well, EA better be prepared to lose a lot of money.

I also don't quite buy that the features in the expansion were ready to ship with the game and then removed, though - while such certainly wouldn't be beyond EA, if such were the case, I think we'd be seeing said expansion in November rather than Spring 2009. Obviously they need to iron out something about it. Certainly such things were probably things they wanted to include in the original Spore, but that they were ready and complete for shipment at the time of Spore's release - no way in hell.

ausdreamer


Multicellular

Joined: 09/10/2008 17:36:53
Messages: 205
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RocketGirl wrote:
ausdreamer wrote:ok look at it this way.

Say they make a game- the game is complete- that is all the game will ever be- no more no less. Thats it - if you hate the game then you have to throw the game in the bin and move on.
Some people hate it and some people love it - aka Spore.


Adding OPTIONAL expansions can make a game that people did not like now enjoy the game. The developer can working on feedback of what is missing make additons to enhance it to suit everyone.

Now nobody is going to like all features or all expansions so having a variety to choose to add to your game can only enhance it? How can it make it worst?


Because they've already shot themselves in the foot with this business model. The base product was talked up SO MUCH, and there are so many aspects to the game that so many people were looking forward to and which weren't in the final release...by trying to add them as expansions which we have to PAY FOR, well, it's like being required to pay the salary of the nice, black-hooded man with the axe that the king has paid to chop off your head. It's like buying a car and then being told the keys, wheels, and engine will cost you extra. It's like paying for a burger and only getting the bun. It's like, "Hey wait...where'z what I paid for? Oh, the bits I wanted will cost extra? And the expansion will cost be half-again what I paid for the original? Sure! Sign me up!"
I don't know about you, but I don't like being taken for a sucker.


I am not being taken for a sucker as I knew exactly what I was buying. Now I just hope for add on game play as per expansions and there are very few games around now that do not offer that.

You feel taken in because you have based your hopes on 2005. I understand that but there are those that did not and understood the way it is. Yes I saw the 2005 video.

If you do not feel expansions will help you in your enjoyment of the game I am not sure what you exactly want. This is the game. this is how it is. You can make suggestions for what you want to happen but if you are not prepared to buy expansions or packs to enhance your experience how on earth is the game ever going to get any better for you?


You will not get achievements if you use the cheat console in that game.
To earn achievements you need to start a new game and not use the cheat console.
RocketGirl


MouthBreather

Joined: 09/12/2008 17:48:52
Messages: 851
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ausdreamer wrote:
RG i am referring to the fact that because you lost your game manual you seem there is a reason to bring up irony.
There are plenty of ways to ensure you do not lose your code- in fact if you have registered your game with EA they keep a record- however if you look after your own possessions and also take pro active insurance you can also make photo copies, make a text file, write it down in various places. Your loss of your game manual is no problem but your own created one.
Mentioning it is irrelevant- and nothing to do with the subject of expansions and stuff packs especially since you claim you do not buy them anyway.

You are so negative you are now just bringing up stuff that is totally irrelevant.


And that an offhand comment that has precious little to do with the subject of the post and was tossed off more or less as humor shows that you are missing the forest for the trees. It was never the point of my post, nor even the bulk of it.

So...as of this moment, I wash my hands of this line of discussion. Get over it, and good day.

The problem is that Spore has become a coloring book instead of a chemistry set

"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -Douglas Adams
ausdreamer


Multicellular

Joined: 09/10/2008 17:36:53
Messages: 205
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ThrowerOfStones wrote:Whole posts in quotes really bother me.


Yes i dont know why it turned out like that- i must have accidentally deleted a code.

You will not get achievements if you use the cheat console in that game.
To earn achievements you need to start a new game and not use the cheat console.
ThrowerOfStones


Multicellular

Joined: 09/12/2008 17:08:24
Messages: 244
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RocketGirl wrote:
ThrowerOfStones wrote:
But Spore isn't dull, isn't shallow, and has emergent gameplay.


Yes, it is, and no, it doesn't.

Show me an example of how a creature will behave differently from another creature based on how it was built, based on a variable seed which determines its larger design, like a fractal. Show me that.
Show me the part where how a creature is built determines its fitness in the world; I've watched creatures on other planets...they don't DO anything. And they can be placed on the world at ANY stage during terraforming, the fitness in the world doesn't MATTER. At the very MOST, a creatures stats determine how hard it is to kill, period; its behavior doesn't appear to be emergent at all, except in the most rudimentary form.

Show me Spore's depth. Show me how interactions between creatures goes AT ALL beyond the superficial. Show me how a planet's ecology is anything other than a mere checklist. Show me how a cosmology affects a solar system, how planets have different gravity or atmospheres, how a sun's color, size, and temperature affects much of anything.

Where'z this alleged depth you're finding in Spore? Because all I see is a bunch of one-note symphonies, terraforming checklists, and two-to-three option conversation possibilities.


The fact that you don't enjoy it doesn't mean that other people don't too.


The fact that other people are enjoying it doesn't mean that it has DEPTH. People enjoyed games like Donkey Kong, Pac-Man, and Space Invaders for ages when video games were new, but that doesn't mean they had depth.


Sure it is also the case that many people have left - that just means Spore isn't for them. Doesn't mean that Spore doesn't have infinite replayablility for the subset of gamers that Spore appeals to.


Doesn't mean Spore is a monkey-maker for Maxis, either; appealing to the minority base seems, to me, to be the rather chowderheaded business plan. And it IS a minority; the extreme drop-off in players and the polls and articles I've read definitely indicate that Spore's core remaining audience is much smaller than those anticipating its release...


You're just reading what you want to read. The fact that creation is not dropping but is in fact accelerating makes it pretty clear to me that interest in Spore is not waning, but rather increasing.

As far as emergent gameplay - you own the game. Go play it. I could recount for awhile examples of the game behavior showing more complexity than you see at surface value, because as someone who has played the crap out of it and still is, I've seen a lot, but honestly, just play the SPORE game, and see for yourself.

Also, lol. Monkey-maker.

RocketGirl


MouthBreather

Joined: 09/12/2008 17:48:52
Messages: 851
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ausdreamer wrote:
You feel taken in because you have based your hopes on 2005.


No, I feel taken in because they're trying to sell what we were told would be in the game all along. There's even video out there--I'll try to dig it up if you REALLY want, but it's hard to find--of Will Wright getting out of his ship and walking around an alien planet...long after 2005. The video is much closer to what Spore is now, post Cute-Spore Coup.

Just as an example. This whole thing smacks of "Poison: $2; Antidote: $2,000."


If you do not feel expansions will help you in your enjoyment of the game I am not sure what you exactly want.


Expansions COULD help me in my enjoyment of the game; they're just headed in exactly the wrong direction, or at least fixing the wrong things first.

The problem is that Spore has become a coloring book instead of a chemistry set

"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -Douglas Adams
RocketGirl


MouthBreather

Joined: 09/12/2008 17:48:52
Messages: 851
Offline

ThrowerOfStones wrote:
As far as emergent gameplay - you own the game. Go play it. I could recount for awhile examples of the game behavior showing more complexity than you see at surface value, because as someone who has played the crap out of it and still is, I've seen a lot, but honestly, just play the SPORE game, and see for yourself.


You've just taken the cheap way out. Hell, this is a response worthy of Sarah Mooseburger: lots of rah-rah noise with absolutely no content.

I PLAYED the game; the emergent gameplay wasn't evident. I asked for examples; provide them or concede the argument.

The problem is that Spore has become a coloring book instead of a chemistry set

"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -Douglas Adams
powerferret


Microbe

Joined: 09/20/2008 05:46:54
Messages: 61
Location:
Pangea

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If anyone is interested, the homepage for spore has the Info about the parts pack. looks like its only 60 new parts( so 10 on each tab...) . 30 new paint schemes ( ie 10 on each layer, which is not much.) and 24 useless animations im assuming are only really accessible in the editor. There is no mention of building or vehicle parts.

[WWW]
ausdreamer


Multicellular

Joined: 09/10/2008 17:36:53
Messages: 205
Offline

RocketGirl wrote:
ausdreamer wrote:
RG i am referring to the fact that because you lost your game manual you seem there is a reason to bring up irony.
There are plenty of ways to ensure you do not lose your code- in fact if you have registered your game with EA they keep a record- however if you look after your own possessions and also take pro active insurance you can also make photo copies, make a text file, write it down in various places. Your loss of your game manual is no problem but your own created one.
Mentioning it is irrelevant- and nothing to do with the subject of expansions and stuff packs especially since you claim you do not buy them anyway.

You are so negative you are now just bringing up stuff that is totally irrelevant.


And that an offhand comment that has precious little to do with the subject of the post and was tossed off more or less as humor shows that you are missing the forest for the trees. It was never the point of my post, nor even the bulk of it.

So...as of this moment, I wash my hands of this line of discussion. Get over it, and good day.


But you do this with others opinions. Yours is the only right one and you have no concept of acccepting anyone elses either. I once made a post actually agreeing with you and you were so defensive to your cause you repllied rudely telling me to do more research.

If you are not going to accept expansions - can you say in words that "idiots" like myself can understand where you are coming from because quite frankly I am getting the impression that only a whole new totally different game will make you happy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 10/13/2008 19:10:08


You will not get achievements if you use the cheat console in that game.
To earn achievements you need to start a new game and not use the cheat console.
ausdreamer


Multicellular

Joined: 09/10/2008 17:36:53
Messages: 205
Offline

powerferret wrote:If anyone is interested, the homepage for spore has the Info about the parts pack. looks like its only 60 new parts( so 10 on each tab...) . 30 new paint schemes ( ie 10 on each layer, which is not much.) and 24 useless animations im assuming are only really accessible in the editor. There is no mention of building or vehicle parts.


Thanks I will check that out.

You will not get achievements if you use the cheat console in that game.
To earn achievements you need to start a new game and not use the cheat console.
MinionJoe


Spacefaring Sporeling

Joined: 09/19/2008 22:59:19
Messages: 5991
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ThrowerOfStones wrote:There's nothing wrong with a game without replayability - the vast majority of story-driven games fall under this umbrella.


Ah! Here I will disagree. There are lots of games out there that are story-driven AND have great replayability. Fable and Knights of the Old Republic come to mind. Granted, they are RP games and give enough character variety to make replayability interesting. But they are story-driven.

In another thread, someone called Spore an RPG. To an extent, it is. To fully enjoy Spore, you really have to get into the head of your creatures. But I do not consider Spore to be designed as an RPG. There is no real story, creatures have no real variance in stats, and you can't stab your own party members in the back.

The last being an important requirement for an RPG in my book.


Times MinionJoe Has Been Banned: 5 Times MinionJoe's Opinion Has Changed: 0
 
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